I will go on the pulp side and divert from the lumber side to give you a sense of how deep the crisis is.
On the pulp side, our older mills still operate on older technology. About 10 years ago, the Finns and the Swedes reinvested massively in their mills. They actually closed them completely and started with the new greenfield ones. It wasn't with advanced technology, but with modern technology like heat transfer and water management, which was different. They got a lot more competitive than us. Brazil is doing even better now, to the point that the Finns are getting non-competitive versus the Brazilians. Canada still hasn't moved. It's moving and moving.
If you look at all the mills in the world, Canadian mills are at the bottom of the pile. If we don't move up the pile, we're going to get in trouble. We constantly hide behind the fact that our fibre is better. That is a fact, but if I have the choice as a packaging customer to buy the good stuff or a lot of the average stuff to do the same function, I'll go there. That's the equation we're missing right now.
It's a global market. The eucalyptus plantations in Brazil and China are ravaging the pulp market to a point where we may end up with pulp mills that are not competitive. That will have a domino effect across the forest sector, for my colleague here upstream and the rest going downstream.