Natural Resources Committee on Dec. 11th, 2025

[Fred Dermarkar]

As I explained earlier, we do have very strict conflict of interest rules, but let me talk a little bit more about the actinium business if that is your question specifically. The actinium business is a joint venture between a German company ITM and CNL. The actinium business, as a joint venture, has its own board and AECL sits on that board. It uses CNL to provide product that then goes towards making the finished actinium product. It's ITM that actually markets that product—

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Correct.

[Fred Dermarkar]

—and CNL is producing the product itself.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

It's a very profitable segment of CNL, and this is my concern. Once we associated with an all-American takeover, there are things that fall under this.

You talked about reaching into the 17 labs in the States for resources. There are agreements to get some of their help and some of the control of the discoveries made with their assistance. It falls under part 810 of the code of federal regulations implementing the U.S. Atomic Energy Act, which has been used to block other countries from selling nuclear technology tied to U.S. companies.

There are decades-old agreements that the U.S. government is blocking, and I'm thinking of the Korean reactor. They're looking for a sign-off by the U.S. government, and the U.S. won't provide that.

What I'm concerned about, and what other researchers and other companies in Canada are concerned about is that as soon as we touch CNL, now that it's all American controlled or managed, the United States will have a veto, for political reasons, on what we can do with that technology and to whom we can sell it or provide it to. That concerns me. Doesn't that concern you?

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Thank you, but that's your time, Mr. Tochor. Maybe you can come back to that.

We are going to Mr. McKinnon for five minutes.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Chair. I'll cede my time to Mr. Hogan.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Mr. Hogan, you have five minutes.

[Corey Hogan, Liberal, Calgary Confederation, AB]

Thank you. I really appreciate that from Mr. McKinnon.

I want to give a preamble to this by thanking my Conservative colleagues for moving to have this study. While I don't agree with all of their lines of questioning, I think it's vitally important that committees such as ours review activities such as this. Our nuclear sector is of vital importance to the country, and as parliamentarians, we should be quite engaged with what's going on. I have certainly learned a lot.

It's clear to me that this is an independent Crown organization that made independent decisions consistent with the policy intent of the Harper government in creating a GOCO in the first place to access private American expertise. Further, Mr. Dermarkar, I've been assured by your testimony that this contract was done in a way that considered IP, Canadian security and Canadian benefits. Unless another shoe is about to drop—and I guess we have two more meetings to find out—I feel quite satisfied that everything done was consistent with your mission. Thank you for that.

I'd like to ask then, how is this plan going of using GOCOs to get expertise from Americans? In your view, has the American expertise trickled to Canada as hoped?

[Fred Dermarkar]

Thank you for the question.

I've personally been in the Canadian nuclear industry for close to 45 years. When I started in 1981, I started at Deep River right next door to Chalk River, and we visited the Chalk River site.

I've visited that Chalk River site many times, and the progress I've seen, the skyline of the site, has changed dramatically in the last 10 years. I have been very impressed by the progress made at Chalk River specifically.

I've also been very impressed by the progress made in the cleanup of Port Hope. There were operations going back to the 1930s and 1940s in Port Hope, long before we really understood nuclear, which led to broad, low-level amounts of radioactive materials—uranium, radium and so on—in the town. The Government of Canada committed to clean up that town almost 25 years ago. The progress that's been made in the last 10 years has been tremendous. All the large-scale sites have either been completed or are nearing completion.

Then finally, when I look at the lab itself, the advancements that are taking place in the lab are impressive. In the last five years, under the GOCO model, we've created two joint ventures: one to pursue actinium with the German company, and another one to pursue fusion with a Japanese company. The other aspect is that we've established the lab as a centre of joint learning and research with nine universities, and we're in the process of establishing a Canadian nuclear learning centre through that partnership with nine universities across Canada.

When you look at the advancements in the lab, in revitalizing the site by taking down old buildings and building new ones, and in keeping Canada at the forefront of nuclear science and technology, and you look at the progress we've made in restoring communities through the cleanup of the government's legacy waste, all under the GOCO model, it has been impressive.

[Corey Hogan, Liberal, Calgary Confederation, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Dermarkar.

It sounds like a policy decision by Stephen Harper that Conservatives should be very proud of, and I congratulate them and the government of the time for making that decision.

What steps we can take to further strengthen Canada's nuclear industry? It's an industry that punches above its weight globally, and we would like to see it become even stronger in years to come.

[Fred Dermarkar]

I would like to see the continued use of Canadian nuclear technology across Canada. I think this would be very good for Canada today as a tier-one nuclear country. By tier one, I mean we engage in every aspect of nuclear, from mining, with Cameco being a world leader in mining, to nuclear research, engineering through the CANDU reactor technology and operational excellence, as exemplified by our nuclear operators in Ontario and New Brunswick.

Also, very recently, we joined that very small club of countries that actually has established a site for a long-term repository for its high-level waste. Therefore, from mining it to dealing with the waste at the very end, there is no country that is as much of a leader across all those areas as Canada.

[Corey Hogan, Liberal, Calgary Confederation, AB]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Thank you.

Mr. Simard, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Dermarkar, earlier, my colleague Mr. Bonin spoke with you about waste management. I know that you import radioactive waste at Chalk River. Who authorizes these imports? Is it you?

[Fred Dermarkar]

I'm going to ask Ms. Pagé to answer.

[Maude-Émilie Pagé]

The only waste that we accept at the Chalk River site is waste that we own and bring in from our other sites. A small percentage of the waste that ends up at Chalk River also comes from university research activities or nuclear medicine.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Okay. So there's no foreign waste at Chalk River.

[Maude-Émilie Pagé]

No.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

There's no low-level waste.

[Maude-Émilie Pagé]

No. Existing Canadian policy on radioactive waste management prohibits the importation of waste from foreign sources.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Okay. Thank you.

I'm curious. We've often talked in committee about small modular reactors. Even though many of my Liberal Party colleagues talk about these small modular reactors, none are currently operating in Canada. Is that correct? When are small modular reactors expected to enter operation?

[Fred Dermarkar]

Ontario Power Generation is currently building the first small modular reactors at its Darlington site. They're going to build four.

We don't own them at all.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, since you are going to have to leave us at 1:00 p.m., if I'm not mistaken, and since a particular situation concerning the Standing Committee on Finance is requiring a lot of the Bloc Québécois's resources, I'd like to move a motion to adjourn.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Madam Clerk, we'll have a recorded vote.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

I'm sorry. This is unclear. What are we voting on?