Evidence of meeting #24 for Natural Resources in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was gas.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB
Great. Thank you.
We support the referral of the tungsten mine in New Brunswick, as well as the referral of the Ksi Lisims LNG project.
I think the key question is this: What are the targeted dates for completion? I raise this with you only because the same Liberal government promised construction on the tungsten mine in 2018, but it's 2026. When will construction start?
Liberal
Conservative
Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB
I think the concern is that.... Even if you're referring projects to the MPO, is it true that projects are being referred without deadlines for construction?
Liberal
Tim Hodgson Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON
No.
It took me a little while to find the target. I don't have it all set to memory.
We have regular updates at the MPO, and the update I'm looking at targets the FID for the Sisson mine in 2027 and the construction start date in 2029, with an in-service date of 2030.
Conservative
Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB
That wouldn't be building at speeds never seen before in generations, I guess.
On this point, Minister, during the debate on Bill C-5, I tried to entrench the two-year timeline that you said you wanted to achieve by adding an amendment into the law. It was rejected by the Liberals.
Would you consider putting the two-year timeline into the law? I ask because the only thing that matters is what's in the legislation.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Duguid
Colleagues, this is about LNG, according to the notice of meeting, so Ms. Stubbs, I would ask you to speak to the topic at hand.
Conservative
Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB
Okay, sure.
Minister, since Conservatives agree with you that LNG projects are in the national interest and since we consistently, for 10 years, have been pushing to fast-track LNG approvals and exports so that Canada can beat the U.S. and we can supply fuel for European allies to get off Russian gas, one concern I have is that your government says projects in the national interest will be approved. I asked your government to define that in the debates on Bill C-5, and also again in the fall. Your government refused both times.
How can proponents or investors in LNG and all other sectors know what will make the cut with your government, since they need clarity and certainty, and you yourself have made that point very compellingly?
Liberal
Tim Hodgson Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON
As in both LNG Canada phase one and in Ksi Lisims, there's a regular ongoing dialogue once a referral is made to the MPO. There is ongoing interaction. The commitment is that within two years, you will get a conditions document that will tell you what you need to do to operate.
Conservative
Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB
For Canadians who don't understand that, it means there's going to be at least a two-year process, and then there will be an approval with conditions, and then it will probably be quite a few years after that before we're actually getting shovels in the ground.
Liberal
Tim Hodgson Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON
If we deliver a conditions document in two years, that is the best in the OECD. That is a world-class performance.
Some of our colleagues south of the border will say they'll do it in 30 days. There is no way that a 30-day review process is a sustainable process. It may work for a short period of time—
Conservative
Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB
Those are emergency provisions. They do most at six months, and that's what Conservatives have proposed.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Duguid
Thank you both.
We're going on to Mr. Clark.
Mr. Clark, you have six minutes.
Liberal
Braedon Clark Liberal Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Minister, thank you very much for being here today.
You talked about LNG quite a bit in your opening statement. Obviously that continued through the first round, and I think it's a good topic to talk about, because there are a lot of really exciting things happening. As you mentioned in your opening statement, last summer Canada began to export LNG to Asian markets from the west coast for the first time.
I'm wondering, Minister, if you could summarize for us what the LNG sector means for this country in terms of economic opportunities, specifically export-related. As we know, this is a key part of our government's promise to double non-U.S. exports over the next decade.
Liberal
Tim Hodgson Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON
What I said to you in my opening remarks is that if we deliver as we hope to, proponents will ultimately increase our production to as much as 100 million tonnes per annum. That would make us one of the largest suppliers of LNG in the world. What is very clear from the economic analysis we do is that the royalty streams, tax streams and good-paying jobs that come with these LNG facilities are among the most significant contributors to provincial budgets in terms of added revenues, and they are major contributors to tax bases.
From a Canadian economy perspective, these are among the most impactful projects we can do. In addition to the LNG Canada and Ksi Lisims projects, we are also tracking Woodfibre LNG, which is under construction. We are tracking Cedar LNG, which is under construction. We are tracking Tilbury, which is near an FID. There are several other earlier-stage projects. From an economic perspective, it is very significant.
From a geopolitical perspective, what I hear everywhere I go—whether it's Germany, the U.K., China, India—and have heard from my colleagues who were recently in Japan or Korea is that all those countries are interested in the energy transition. They view LNG as a very important transition fuel. It gives them a much cleaner alternative to what most of them are doing today, which is burning coal. What we hear over and over again is that with the dramatic increase in electricity around the AI phenomenon, our allies expect to be using a lot more transition fuel for a longer period of time.
When they have a choice in where to get LNG, Canada stands out as a reliable supplier—a country that doesn't use energy for coercion and that is committed to building its LNG exports in an environmentally responsible way, with the lowest-emission LNG in the world. That's what our allies want. If they have a choice between ours and that of some of the other players, they would like to choose ours.
Liberal
Braedon Clark Liberal Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS
That leads me to my next question, Minister. It is related to the environmental aspect of this.
There are obviously huge economic imperatives, which you've touched on. Based on what you just finished saying, is it safe to say that this is not just our own opinion? These are things we hear from our allies, trading partners and potential trading partners around the world. The fact that Canadian LNG is some of the cleanest, most environmentally responsible in the world is a real value added to our partners, both current and prospective. Is that fair to say?
Liberal
Tim Hodgson Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON
Yes, it is, in two aspects.
One is that our allies want it because it lets them get off of coal faster. We could not have heard it more clearly from the Chinese and the Indians. I've been in both places in the last month or two. When presented with two choices—one that is produced with a lower carbon intensity than the other—they will take the lower-carbon-intensity fuel.
Two, as the world continues to recognize the importance of transition, our belief is that, over time, people will start paying more for low-carbon-intensity LNG. Today, they don't. Today, if they can get two that are the same and you can give them the low-carbon-intensity one, they'll take it. I think, over time, you'll start to see people pay for that.
Liberal
Liberal
Braedon Clark Liberal Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS
Minister, you quickly touched on this, but what do some of these projects mean as they relate to relationships with indigenous peoples in this country? You mentioned Ksi Lisims.
I know we're pressed for time.
Liberal
Tim Hodgson Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON
Look, what Canada has done is figure out how to build LNG in partnership with first nations. That's a credit to this country, and I think it's going to be one of the things that really helps us deliver the economic portion of reconciliation that first nations have been looking for for a long time.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Duguid
Thanks to both of you.
We are now going to move on to Monsieur Simard.
Mr. Simard, you have the floor for six minutes.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Minister, I would have loved to be there with you in person today, but unfortunately, it was not possible. Nevertheless, I'd like to show you that I'm a model student. I've listened to you before and I've listened to your opening remarks keenly.
You have stated more than once in the past that we need to play our cards right in the current context, that we are at a turning point, and that Canada can be an energy superpower. Professor Pineau and Professor Mousseau testified before the committee recently and they said that based on their assessment, Canada will never be an energy superpower. Perhaps we can put that aside for now.
My concern is to know the conditions under which you'd be prepared to accept a liquefied natural gas, or LNG, pipeline. I'll tell you why. A closer look at Bill C‑15 and page 300 in particular—it's a very thick bill—shows that the government is giving the minister the authority to exempt any company from the application of any federal law, except the Criminal Code, for a period of three years.
This is cause for immediate concern for us, because as you know, the LNG project—
