Natural Resources Committee on May 26th, 2026

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Very well.

Has this been presented yet? You mentioned eight sectors.

[André Bernier]

There are eight sectors.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Have those eight areas been made public?

[André Bernier]

Yes, they are part of the strategy.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

So the eight areas are identified in the strategy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Thank you both.

Mr. Gunn, welcome to the committee. You have five minutes.

[Aaron Gunn, Conservative, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Mr. Christie, as I'm sure you know, there are two hydroelectric dams located in the city of Powell River. The dams were built more than 100 years ago to power the local pulp mill, creating thousands of jobs. They quite literally built the city of Powell River. About 10 years ago, that mill fell into financial trouble. It was forced to sell the dams as distressed assets to a small company called Brookfield Renewables. That company has since applied for an electricity export permit to send that electricity out of Canada to the United States, in the middle of a trade war, with no or very little benefit to the people who live in the region, the province and the country.

About one month ago, as the local member of Parliament, I submitted a letter to the Canada Energy Regulator demanding public hearings in the city of Powell River at the earliest possible opportunity regarding Brookfield's permit request. This would give the people who the regulator's decision will affect the most the chance to have their say. Here we are, one month later, and there is still no response.

My question for you is, why the silence? Will the regulator commit to holding public hearings in the city of Powell River regarding this very important issue?

[Darren Christie]

I'll have to start by noting that the decision of where and exactly when to hold an oral public hearing is a decision of the independent commission. It's not a decision that I can make. It's my understanding that the commission has committed to holding an oral hearing. The commission has not yet communicated the location and the exact dates. I'm not in a position to elaborate on where it will be.

[Aaron Gunn, Conservative, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Okay. Thank you. Well, I hope you can pass it along to some of the people you're working with to try to have a more rapid correspondence with the local member of Parliament. We have been waiting a month. If there have been developments, we would like to know. It is very important for the people who live in Powell River, regardless of political persuasion, to have their say on this very important issue.

In Canada we like to talk a lot about clean renewable energy, electrification and domestic self-sufficiency, and yet in provinces like British Columbia, endowed with massive hydroelectric resources, in recent years we've become an electricity importer, primarily from the United States. In this context, does the Canada Energy Regulator believe it makes sense to be granting export permits to corporately owned power producers so that they can send the finite electricity that is being generated here out of the country, or is that something that is even part of the consideration?

[Darren Christie]

What gets looked at in the context of applications to export electricity is spelled out in the Canadian Energy Regulator Act. There are two specific requirements.

One is related to impacts on neighbouring provinces, and the other is what we refer to as the fair market access requirement. That effectively requires that if electricity is to be exported, would-be Canadian buyers of that electricity have an opportunity to purchase the electricity on, I would say, similar enough terms and conditions. The considerations beyond that are not contemplated in the act, but that fair market access requirement, I understand, is the core issue that's being considered as part of that hearing on the Powell River export application.

[Aaron Gunn, Conservative, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you very much for your answer.

Really quickly, Mr. Leyburne, if I can direct a question towards you, how reliant are east coast refineries on foreign oil or oil that transits through the United States at the moment? Do you have that information?

[Drew Leyburne]

I'll pass that on to my colleague, Mike Rau.

[Michael Rau]

Sure.

I'll try to get the numbers off the top of my head, but eastern Canada imports about 500,000 barrels per day. I think that about 80% of that is from the U.S., with the rest from other countries. In and around 700,000 barrels per day transit the U.S. into southern Ontario and go into Montreal. Eventually, some of that gets into Lévis.

I would say that most of the region is supplied by Canadian crude. My understanding is that the biggest rationale for eastern Canadian refiners' bringing in crude is that it has to come in by ship at this point, so there are some infrastructure constraints.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Thanks to both of you.

We'll move on to our final speaker.

Mr. Saini, you have five minutes.

[Gurbux Saini, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, witnesses, for being here.

We are talking about doubling the capacity of the grid by 2050. How many jobs is that going to create? Do we have any idea?

[Drew Leyburne]

The short answer is that we don't have a specific number. The electricity strategy refers to the hundreds of thousands of Canadians who work in and around the energy system.

Part of it will depend on the type of build-out we see. Different types of electricity infrastructure have different types of employment patterns, but suffice it to say that, with this amount of economic activity, it's not just in electricity jobs that we'll see benefits. It's in the caterers, the construction companies, the fleet managers and others. There will be a spillover effect across the entire Canadian economy because electricity is so prevalent in every part of the country.

[Gurbux Saini, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

In the recent announcement about the major projects, there's a northwest grid proposed for British Columbia that is going to link British Columbia with the Northwest Territories. Is that the type of development we should be seeing across Canada to help reduce all the barriers we have?

[André Bernier]

Thank you very much for the question.

Without commenting on that specific project—although it is referenced as part of the northwest conservation corridor project—I think the contention is that the more we're able to connect east-west and then north-south, including up to the territories in particular, the more we are likely to see benefits.

It's very challenging to run an isolated grid where you're heavily reliant on diesel for the most part. It means you're constrained for energy supply. Costs tend to be much higher. Over time, connecting the territories to the continental grid in the provinces could be very advantageous. It's a long-term, expensive endeavour, but it could be transformational for their energy systems.

[Gurbux Saini, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Christie, in your opening remarks, you said that we are issuing about 170 international permits. Is that only in the U.S., or do we have other countries that are also participating in that?

[Darren Christie]

Specifically in the context of electricity power lines, as well as electricity export authorizations, those would all be to the United States. The CER is not involved in authorizing trade between provinces. At this point, there are no designated interprovincial power lines either. That's why, currently, our jurisdiction of active facilities and export authorizations is all to the U.S.

[Gurbux Saini, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Leyburne, can you detail the electricity projects being advanced by the federal government to make Canada more energy secure in both clean and conventional energy?

[Drew Leyburne]

I would say that it would be a very long list. There are hundreds of projects that the federal government is actively supporting across the energy system right now, and dozens of programs that, in their different ways, are supporting it—and that's before we talk about the broad-based investment tax credit regime that supports every kind of project that qualifies.

Every year, Natural Resources Canada publishes a major projects inventory. We've been doing so for over a decade now—almost 20 years. You can very quickly, through that resource, see what some of the trends for major projects are in energy and other natural resources. It may be a useful reference for this report.

[Gurbux Saini, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Colleagues, that brings to an end our first panel. Let me, on your behalf, thank our witnesses.

Mr. Leyburne, I wonder, because the electricity strategy has come up a number of times, whether you might formally table that with the committee. Mr. Tochor also had a request, and the committee would appreciate receiving those numbers, that evidence.

With that, colleagues, we are going to suspend for a few moments, and we'll start our new panel in about five to seven minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Welcome back, colleagues. We'll now resume the meeting.

I'd like to welcome our second set of witnesses. A number of them—all, in fact—are on the screen, as you see, via video conference.

As individuals, we have with us Normand Mousseau, scientific director at Trottier Energy Institute and professor of physics at Université de Montréal, and Blake Shaffer, associate professor, University of Calgary.

Professor Shaffer, you have two University of Calgary grads—