Natural Resources Committee on Oct. 6th, 2025

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Laberge, your speech on the Port of Saguenay's advantageous position was really nice.

Our committee is looking at ways to streamline the expansion of the critical minerals sector and at which types of infrastructure would be required to do so.

I appreciate the earlier criticism coming from Mr. Williams‑Jones, but I am not as pessimistic as he is. I remain optimistic because I think that the Port of Saguenay could play an important role in getting certain minerals in northern Ontario and especially Quebec to market. These minerals are near a railway that would need to be rehabilitated.

Can you inform the committee on the Port of Saguenay's characteristics and the role it could play in the development of the critical minerals sector? That is what our committee is interested in at this time. I also invite you to submit to the committee maps showing nearby mining projects.

[Carl Laberge]

We can play a very important role. We talked earlier about the importance of logistics and infrastructure. Canada's goal is to diversify its economy and reach foreign markets other than the U.S. market. These other markets cannot be reached other than by transport vessels. Ports therefore play a critical role toward that objective. The geographic location of the Port of Saguenay is advantageous. In addition, as I said earlier, it is well positioned with respect to the industrial land surrounding it. Canada aims to process its raw materials in order to add as much value as possible. That is what the Port of Saguenay can offer, which is quite unique.

In terms of infrastructure, the Port of Saguenay also benefits from its connection to a northern rail network. This network could be improved and rehabilitated at low costs, compared to other options that have been proposed recently to reach mining sectors in the north. This vision is in line with what has already been implemented in Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean, where low-cost improvements to the rail network to improve its fluidity have already been proposed. The same goes for northern Quebec. In my opening remarks, I talked about a project to rehabilitate a section. This project was proposed by the Cree community a few years ago. A little further away, the rail network in Abitibi is well connected to northern Ontario. It would be possible to optimize the infrastructure in those areas as well.

Looking at the big picture, we see that a northern corridor already exists in some places and that it could be improved and optimized with a little investment and collaboration among the various stakeholders. That would make it possible to reach a very significant part of northern Quebec and northern Ontario in order to carry out more mining projects in those northern sectors and bring them closer to infrastructure. The Port of Saguenay is setting up a processing point and an exit point for these projects to integrate the infrastructure, the transportation logistics and the ability to process materials and ship them to foreign markets very quickly and at very competitive prices.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

I have taken part in other studies on critical minerals in the past. The key element is energy. Processing minerals, whether it is primary or secondary processing, requires energy, which in turn requires access to power lines and gas. Can you briefly describe the Port of Saguenay's situation in that regard?

[Carl Laberge]

Thank you for the question.

We have talked about the other benefits, such as the industrial site. This site is also located in Saguenay, a major city with a fairly abundant workforce. The site is a good distance from residential areas, but it is also relatively close to workers.

We also have access to the energy grid. As you said, mining processing industries must be able to access energy sources, whether electricity or natural gas.

In addition, in Saguenay, we are fortunate to have what I would call an exceptional connection to the network. Not only are we connected to the network, but we are ideally located in Hydro-Québec's network, between the major northern production hubs in the North Shore and James Bay regions and the major consumption centres along the St. Lawrence. Saguenay is geographically located in the middle of this network. The ability to build interties is considerable.

Having the electrical capacity is a big advantage of the Saguenay site, and we are obviously connected to the natural gas grid right now. We are therefore able to offer these processing capabilities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Thank you, Mr. Laberge.

It's on to Mr. Martel, for six minutes.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Laberge, can you tell us about development opportunities in the Port of Saguenay to support economic growth in Canada and Quebec?

[Carl Laberge]

As I said, there are huge opportunities for development.

In terms of economic benefits, we have 1,200 hectares of industrial land to be developed, which offers immense mining potential in the northern part of the region. We are already in talks with certain companies. That is no secret.

Among other possibilities, there is the phosphate industrial processing capacity. Companies want to build plants in our area regarding two phosphate projects. There are also projects in the lithium and copper sectors. Businesses also want to go make use of our facilities. Other processing sectors are located in the same area.

We are going to invest in infrastructure so that we are ready and in a better position than other countries to welcome these projects. However, we really want to encourage private sector investment by offering good infrastructure both in terms of transportation and in terms of industrial facilities.

Economic benefits will flow directly not only from future development at the Port of Saguenay, but also from impacts on the transportation chain. Our investments will be very significant and very strategic.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Laberge.

Mr. Desaulniers, you mentioned having obtained social licence, which is no small feat.

You said that you have been working on this project for 15 years.

Why is it taking so long?

[Eric Desaulniers]

I would not say that we have obtained social licence, because that is a goal you have to work towards year-round. It is a constant job, a bit like a marriage. We have to make sure that the community always accepts us.

We have been present in the community since 2013, which greatly facilitates social acceptability.

I still go back every Christmas with my family. There is no way my children would go anywhere else.

We are involved in organizations. We are now one of the largest employers in the region. That has been built up over time.

We conducted two surveys: one in 2018 and one in 2019. We have not done another one in a long time. At the time, we had 83% and 82% support, respectively, but there are still 9% of people who do not approve our project. So we have to respect them and make sure we do not create losers. We are working on this with all our hearts, bringing together the strengths of all our engineers to try to understand how to best develop the project for the community.

Our project includes a number of concrete environmental initiatives, such as the gradual rehabilitation of the site, the fully electric mine—which we are developing with the Caterpillar industrial group—and the filling in of the pit. We offered everyone a radius of one kilometre around any infrastructure as well as voluntary acquisition of their property if they were concerned about what we were doing.

A number of what I would call original initiatives have enabled us to ensure that our project does not create losers.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Desaulniers, you know that getting unanimous support is not possible.

You talked about conducting surveys. When, for example, 90% of people support a project and 10% oppose it, it is impossible to reach unanimity.

What I also understand is that if five people disagree with a project and 800 support it, the project cannot move forward.

Is this correct?

[Eric Desaulniers]

Quebec has a great process in place. It took us 19 months from the time we submitted our feasibility study and impact study to get an approval by order in council, and that includes the consultation period of the Bureau d'audiences publiques sur l'environnement, or BAPE. Everything went well because we took it seriously. From the outset, we submitted a project that demonstrated to all Quebec government experts that we deserved to get an approval by order in council, which was issued in February 2021.

Since then, construction has started. However, what would take the project to the next level would be to complete the marketing strategy. Graphite is a critical mineral. It is not like gold, copper or a basic mineral. It is about de-risking the revenue side of our project so that we can attract the capital to make it happen and sell that product to buyers at a reasonable price.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

You know that output volumes are important. Will your output volume be sufficient? That is always the question.

At the same time, if foreign companies see that you have a lot of potential, they can drive prices down.

Do you expect the competition to be fierce?

[Eric Desaulniers]

Right now, 100% of the graphite used in lithium-ion batteries comes from China. I am not talking about graphite for traditional use. In that respect, there is already a market we can rely on, and prices are already higher than in the market for the graphite used to manufacture lithium-ion batteries. The latter is completely dominated by the Chinese. They clearly understood, over the past five years, that the demand was massive and they built an exceptional supply chain.

China is already engaging in somewhat unfair competition. Last year, the U.S. government announced that it would impose anti-dumping tariffs on graphite imports from China. This will be on top of the current 105% tariff, which will officially come into effect later this year.

Mechanisms have been put in place to allow us to offer a competitive price to our customers, mainly the Americans. We would very much like to see similar measures in Canada so that we could keep our product in the country, but there is indeed competition in this market. This market generates a large output volume, but profit margins are smaller. That is why we need more strategic markets where the output volume is smaller and the profit margins are larger.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Thank you.

We will go to Mr. Hogan for six minutes.

[Corey Hogan, Liberal, Calgary Confederation, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all the witnesses for being here today, including those who are appearing online.

Mr. Laberge, you mentioned private investments. One of the issues that was mentioned to us is that no proponent is coming forward for the northern corridor project.

Why is that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Can you repeat the question? The interpreter didn't hear it.

[Corey Hogan, Liberal, Calgary Confederation, AB]

Why do you think there's not a clear proponent for the northern corridor?

[Carl Laberge]

This project is being compared to others that have already been announced and for which it is easy to find a proponent. I am thinking, for example, of mining projects or nuclear power plants that are located in very specific places. We cannot compare them to a project that spans several hundred kilometres and involves a number of different players. It is hard to find a single private investor who will take on a project of national scope.

What we see is that a lot of private investment comes from more than a single stakeholder. For example, at the port, we work with local private sector terminal operators as well as various other investors. When it comes to the railway, railway companies will obviously have a role to play. I spoke earlier about indigenous communities, which are currently the proponents of part of the project and will also be stakeholders. There are also the mining companies, which will be paying users of this site and will contribute to the project.

So there is not one single private investor, but several, and they will have to work together. Governments will also have to play a unifying role to ensure that a corridor as strategic as this one can be created, organized and funded. There is a certain level of risk associated with this project, and it will require a more complex financial structure than if there were only a single investor.

[Corey Hogan, Liberal, Calgary Confederation, AB]

That leads into a question for Professor Williams-Jones.

I totally hear you on the north and perhaps—my words—your skepticism on the north in terms of development. I'm a little more enthusiastic about the long-term possibilities, and I want to make sure the government is keeping an eye on it.

I'm curious to know, from your view, if you think there are near-north opportunities or developments in the north that you would support if forced to do so. Which ones do you think are the good ones, and how would you pursue them?

[A.E. Williams-Jones]

Right now, if we talk about lithium, because of the James Bay hydro projects of the 1970s, we do have roads that get up there. We should really be promoting those projects strongly, because that would be an example of promoting deposits in the north. There is quite a lot of exploration going on at the present time. Yes, where we have at least partial infrastructure, we should really promote it, and that would be a good example.

Could I use this as an opportunity to talk about metallurgy?

[Corey Hogan, Liberal, Calgary Confederation, AB]

Sure.

[A.E. Williams-Jones]

We're talking about these rare metals, these critical metals. What we haven't talked about is how easy or how difficult it is to extract them. Finding the deposits is one thing; exploiting them profitably is another.

I'll give you a really good example that's close to us in Quebec. It's Niobec, which produces niobium. Do you know that only 59% of that niobium is being recovered, while 40% is actually going into waste? This is a huge challenge.

If we talk about Strange Lake, again, yes, we talked about the infrastructure, but what we didn't talk about was how easy or how difficult it is to extract the metals from the minerals. The Chinese have developed technology for Bayan Obo, if we're talking about the rare earth elements, and they have just a couple of minerals that they're working with. If I go to some of these deposits in Canada, I see that the mineralogy— in other words, where the metals are—is quite complex, so the federal government, in my view, needs to be investing money into trying to improve the level of extraction.

I've given you the Niobec example. We're talking about all of these lithium projects, and my own research group is heavily involved in lithium. What we've seen is that there are serious metallurgical problems and that there could be real investment in the metallurgy. Let's not forget the metallurgy.

I'm sorry I got off track, but I think this is important for all of you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Okay.

You have just 30 seconds.

[Corey Hogan, Liberal, Calgary Confederation, AB]

On access to capital, what can the government be doing in that space? That's been a common theme in the committee meetings so far.

That's to anyone who wants to take it.

[A.E. Williams-Jones]

You guys are much more qualified. I'm just a lonely scientist.