Evidence of meeting #14 for Official Languages in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was projects.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Administrator, member of the Board of directors, Regional office of the health of the Center of Manitoba, Société Santé en français
In Notre-Dame-de-Lourdes.
Administrator, member of the Board of directors, Regional office of the health of the Center of Manitoba, Société Santé en français
Yes.
Administrator, member of the Board of directors, Regional office of the health of the Center of Manitoba, Société Santé en français
It is predominantly francophone.
Administrator, member of the Board of directors, Regional office of the health of the Center of Manitoba, Société Santé en français
Absolutely. The people we serve in Notre-Dame-de-Lourdes are 80% francophone. Nonetheless, we also serve the area's anglophones.
Conservative
Conservative
Liberal
Brian Murphy Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you to our witness, Mr. Gauthier.
I can say—and I guess that all committee members share my thoughts—that we support your efforts and your action plan. I am sure that the people opposite have already supported your organization when discussing these issues with Minister Clement and other government ministers. I am sure of that and of the support for your efforts.
I am the member for Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe. This is a bilingual riding, where there are many francophones and anglophones. We have two major hospitals, i.e., the Georges Dumont Hospital and the Moncton Hospital. To a certain extent, both hospitals are bilingual.
Mr. Godin and Mr. D'Amours will no doubt ask questions about the rural populations in the province and in other Canadian regions.
For me, Moncton is a large city with an urban population. I therefore would like to ask a question about the level of bilingual health care services in urban regions. For New Brunswick, Moncton is a major city.
I've noticed that almost all the services describe in the progress report are intended for rural populations, people living far from major health service centres. For example, on page 7, there is a good New Brunswick project called Telehealth, which I know very well. The service is available to all, but it is essentially used to encourage people living in rural areas, far from Moncton or Saint John, to share their problems.
I therefore have some relevant questions. I also have to say that the new Liberal Health Minister of New Brunswick, Michael Murphy, is my cousin. He has not asked me to put these questions to you; this is my idea.
Liberal
Brian Murphy Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB
That is the truth, I swear.
In Moncton, in our two major hospitals, there are two different levels of bilingual services.
Are there plans to conduct studies or perhaps support the delivery of services in both official languages at the two major institutions, if people visiting the Moncton Hospital want to receive services in French?
President and Director General, Société Santé en français
I would say that, obviously, circumstances are different from city to city. In Moncton, we know that there are two regional health authorities: one for francophones and another for anglophones. We know that one of the problems lies in more specialized services. Some services are offered only by the anglophone health authority, while others are provided only by the francophone authority.
Therefore, I am not sure whether you want to know how francophones can access services that are only available in English. Is that what you would like to know?
Liberal
Brian Murphy Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB
No, the fact is that Moncton has two major regional health authorities. There are two health centres, including an anglophone hospital where many of the services are given either in French or in both languages. There is also the other hospital. Many anglophones have to visit the Georges Dumont Hospital because that is where the oncology centre is located. Needless to say, the hospital is bilingual. At least, I hope it is. And there are francophones who have to go to Moncton Hospital. I know that the hospital offers certain bilingual services.
Are there studies on and support for a bilingual policy at both hospitals? Both centres are looking for help. As I said, the Minister of Health is my cousin, and he needs some help.
President and Director General, Société Santé en français
That is what I had understood.
Where did we start on these issues? We started with basic services, primary health care services, because we cannot deal with everything at the same time and we do not have the means to do so. We therefore decided to begin with primary health care services. That is why we are talking to you a lot about community health centres. In passing, a community health centre project is being developed in Saint John, New Brunswick.
Concerning more specialized services, we see that francophone institutions are also able to provide services in English. The reverse is not necessarily true. We therefore have work to do in order to bring about broader policies so that francophones can access specialized services, which they could not obtain, for example, at Georges Dumont Hospital in Moncton.
This issue is still of concern to our network in New Brunswick, but like I said earlier, given our level of resources, we decided to begin by targeting primary health care services.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Guy Lauzon
Thank you Mr. Murphy and Mr. Gauthier.
Mrs. Barbot, you have the floor.
Bloc
Vivian Barbot Bloc Papineau, QC
If I understand what you are saying, there are areas where, to be able to make services available to francophones, anglophone hospitals are given the means to provide services in French. I understand that, even though that is not an ideal situation. Services are to be given in French wherever there are francophones who require treatment. Although this is a last resort measure, I am ready to live with it.
Now, what I do not understand is that, out of an envelop of 30 million dollars, 10 million dollars is given to McGill University, in a city such is Montreal where all services are in French, and that this money strengthens the anglophone network in order to provide services in French. I am not sure that that is appropriate, because the money you are given is for the promotion of French language health services.
The McGill's network is very well equipped and has extraordinary resources. There is always this bias when we compare what is given to francophones outside Quebec on a needs basis and the type of hybridization with the anglophone “minority”, which creates dreadful distortion. Some 10 million dollars goes to McGill. I have nothing against Montreal anglophones being healthy, far from it. And their health seems fine, especially in view of your statement in your document, that the health of the francophones is much poorer than that of anglophones. I am trying to understand the rationale behind this decision.
Furthermore, the report by the advisory committee you chaired in 2001 indicated that francophones were less healthy than anglophones and that 50% of them did not have access to services in French.
Can you monitor changes in the health of francophones living in minority situations? In other words, can you say whether there have been improvements in their health since you began your work? Moreover, I would like to know the proportion of francophones five years later who live in a minority situation and who do not have access to health care services in their language.
President and Director General, Société Santé en français
First of all, with regard to the issue of anglophones inside Quebec and francophones outside Quebec, I would like to say that it is up to Quebeckers to speak for themselves. I will not get involved in that issue, because I have enough to do dealing with francophones who live outside of Quebec. In Canada, there have always been two sides to this issue, and our organization deals more with francophones outside Quebec. I would suggest you invite people in Quebec to explain the other side of the issue. Suffice it to say that I have no answer to give to you in this respect.
As for changes...
Bloc
Vivian Barbot Bloc Papineau, QC
You only wanted to specify that your mandate concerns francophones outside Quebec.
President and Director General, Société Santé en français
Yes, that is all I was implying. So, there are one million francophones outside Quebec. I believe there are close to one million anglophones in Quebec, but there is another organization that deals with their issues. That is not part of our mandate.
President and Director General, Société Santé en français
With regard to changes, we began our work three and a half years ago, in 2003. We have already laid the groundwork to improve accessibility.
Let us take the example of the community health centre of my colleague, Mr. Fortier, in Manitoba. Such a project starts out as a dream, but $3 million was needed for it to take shape. The community raised $1.5 million, and we obtained $30,000 in seed money. That to me was excellent.
We have seen small instances of progress thanks to the infrastructure we are putting into place. The oncological care project in New Brunswick, the community health centres in Edmonton, Saint John's dream of having a community health centre in New Brunswick and the establishment of services on Prince Edward Island all have an impact on the data we have seen.
The advisory committee is continuing its work and asks the same question throughout the country. I won't give you a scoop with regard to results, but we are headed in the right direction. The structures we have put into place are strong, and we are starting to see an improvement of approximately five per cent when it comes to the 55% of people who were deprived of services.
It takes between three and six years to establish the structures required to carry out health care projects. It takes eight years to train a physician, and we are only in our fourth year. It is important that provinces and communities maintain the momentum, and investments by the federal government are absolutely crucial in this respect.
