Official Languages Committee on Oct. 24th, 2006

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's a pleasure to be here to discuss my department's efforts to ensure the strength of Canada's francophone minority communities.

Immigration is a key factor in the growth and vitality of francophone communities outside Quebec. Our government plans to attract more French-speaking immigrants to these communities, and to work with our partners to help these newcomers succeed.

As I am sure the committee is aware, both the previous Commissioner of Official Languages and minority communities themselves have expressed concerns in the past about the impact of immigration and of my department's policies on the development of official language minority communities. This is also a great concern for Citizenship and Immigration Canada.

My department has a key role to play in building Canada's economic and social future. That most certainly includes maintaining and contributing to the linguistic duality that is our heritage. Part of accomplishing that goal is meeting the need to attract more francophone immigrants to our francophone minority communities, integrating them well, and encouraging them to stay in these communities. Canada's new government is committed to doing what is required to support this strategic plan.

A cornerstone of this support is ensuring the resources are there to better integrate newcomers to Canada. In Budget 2006, our government backed up that promise when it provided $307 million in new settlement funding. But there is more we can do and more that we are doing.

I am pleased to be able to report today that the department has made significant progress in addressing these concerns. As the members of the standing committee know, immigration is an area of shared jurisdiction, and we have numerous federal-provincial-territorial agreements under which the provinces and territories exercise their authority in this regard.

There is much more to it than that. Immigration may be an area of shared jurisdiction, but it is a matter of universal concern. We must go beyond agreement and strive for true collaboration if we are to meet our goals for attracting and retaining immigrants to our francophone minority communities.

This collaboration is embodied by the efforts of the members of the Citizenship and Immigration Canada-Francophone Minority Communities Steering Committee. The committee was established in 2002 to develop strategies to promote immigration to francophone minority communities. It is co-chaired by a senior official of CIC and a representative of Canada's francophone minority communities.

Many of the committee's members are drawn from francophone minority communities across Canada, and there is also participation from the provinces, territories, and other federal departments. Our government--Prime Minister Harper, Minister Verner, and CIC--is supporting the strategic plan with the new reception and settlement infrastructure that can be found in Edmonton, Calgary, and Ottawa. Similarly, we are supporting the strategic plan with a number of tools to help in the integration of newcomers, such as the reference guides on services available in French in six cities in Ontario, including Ottawa, Toronto, Hamilton, Windsor, Sudbury, and London.

Along with our partners, we are supporting the strategic plan by engaging in promotional and recruitment activities in countries like France, Morocco, and Mauritius. Provinces and communities have joined CIC in recruitment events that have been held in francophone cities such as Nice, Brussels, Paris, and Rabat, to encourage applications in the skilled worker category. Several provinces were among our partners in staging and publicizing these events, which attracted more than 1,200 people.

I know the committee heard recently from both Daniel Jean and Marc Arnal, co-chairs of the francophone minority steering committee, which provided a briefing on our strategic plan to foster immigration to francophone minority communities.

I had the pleasure of launching the strategic plan last month in Winnipeg. The plan gives a realistic assessment of the challenges and the steps we can take to meet those challenges. Our goal is to increase the number of French-speaking immigrants to a minimum of 4.4% of overall immigration by 2008. We want especially to increase the number of French-speaking economic class immigrants and students in francophone minority communities. To meet those challenges, we need to continue to work internationally to recruit new French-speaking immigrants to our francophone minority communities and we need to work in and with these communities to support our goals of integration and retention. That means expanding and refining the types of initiatives I've just described and bringing forth new initiatives.

The strategic plan offers a number of examples, including providing intensive language training tailored to the workplace; offering training and extended internships to upgrade skills and improve employability; continuing to support vulnerable clients, including women and youth; and raising awareness in local communities of the potential benefits of immigration. These efforts will be supported by other measures already implemented by our government, such as cutting the right of permanent residence fee in half, giving foreign students the opportunity to work off campus so that they can learn more about our country and our languages, and our $18 million investment in streamlining the assessment and recognition of foreign credentials.

Everything we do to make Canada more attractive to immigrants will also make Canada more attractive to francophone immigrants.

In conclusion, Mr. Chairman, let me sum up by saying that the measures I described may be directed specifically at building strong francophone communities in Canada, but in the process, we will also build a stronger Canada.

Canada's linguistic duality is the foundation of our country, and my department, like our government, is determined to maintain and strengthen that foundation.

Thank you. I welcome any questions the committee may have.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you very much, Minister, and allow me to congratulate you on your French.

I must congratulate you on your command...I'm somewhat embarrassed, being francophone, to see an anglophone with such confidence in French--

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Well, that's taking it a long way, Mr. Chairman. Wait till people ask me questions. Then we'll see how I do.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

For what it's worth, I'm very impressed, and I must congratulate you on your ability to speak French as well as you do.

We have a round of questions for seven minutes.

We are going to start with our resident guru, Mr. Simard.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Mr. Minister and Mr. Jean.

You were in Winnipeg, Mr. Minister, a little while back signing an agreement, and I think it was an excellent thing. I'm not sure if it was in partnership with the Province of Manitoba, with the province setting an objective of 7% francophone immigrants.

One of the challenges we have, and I'm sure you're aware of this, is with the settlement resources after we get the people here. It's all very nice to set targets and bring them here, but it's a huge issue in Manitoba, and in French Manitoba, in the sense that we have one person right now who's looking after the whole settlement office. In some cases, when immigrants come to Winnipeg, they're even stuck bringing the families home with them. It's to that extent.

I like the idea of setting objectives that are higher than the percentage of francophones in Manitoba. I think it's a great idea, because that is how we're going to expand our population.

How do we make sure the resources are there in the second place to ensure we can welcome them properly?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you very much for the question.

Manitoba is particularly activist when it comes to recruiting not just francophone immigrants but using its provincial nominee program overall to recruit. Minister Allan in Manitoba is doing a great job of demonstrating his commitment to this.

The good news is that the new settlement funding for provinces outside Quebec will mean a very large increase overall for settlement funding for all provinces. Manitoba will do very well by this and will be announcing this very shortly. Knowing Minister Allan and the commitment of the Government of Manitoba to settlement funding also for the francophone communities, they see this as a very important sector for them to address.

We've already started to do some things in St. Boniface. Because of the strategy, initiatives are already under way to help people find suitable housing, as this is a real challenge. We are very aware of this, but the strategy, combined with the $307 million, means we now have the means to implement the strategy in a meaningful way.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

You hit the nail on the head--my second question is on housing. One of the issues we have is that people coming to St. Boniface want to integrate with the francophone community, but there's absolutely no housing available. They end up living downtown somewhere and being brought into gangs. It creates a whole different socio-economic problem.

Is there a strategy between Immigration and CMHC in terms of this? There should be some kind of an integrated strategy to make sure that when we bring people to a francophone community they are able to live within that community.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I've talked to the minister about Manitoba. We have to do much more, I acknowledge that. I have not talked to CMHC about this issue, but I know it's becoming more and more of a challenge even in my own province. In Alberta, and Calgary, for instance, it's a huge challenge, and it really requires not just interdepartmental cooperation but intergovernmental cooperation. I'm sure the provinces are working on this as well, but we have a long way to go. It's not an easy challenge.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

A last question. Past immigration ministers have thrown the idea around of bringing immigrants into Canada and having them live in very specific areas. That is one option when you're trying to allow people to live outside of Toronto, Vancouver, or Montreal, because that's where 95% of our immigrants go. Is that something you're thinking about as a strategy and something you may want to develop?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

One of the things we are working on is regionalization, so we spread the wealth around. Overwhelmingly right now, immigrants in general go to Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, and to an increasing degree to places like Calgary and Edmonton. We have to find ways to encourage them to go outside those communities. We do have some regionalization strategies we're working on, and this is critical for many provinces. Provinces like Newfoundland are losing population. New Brunswick has some real challenges with respect to this.

We've been talking to the provinces. One of the great tools the provinces have, and we're encouraging them to use more, is the provincial nominee program. Manitoba is using it very effectively. New Brunswick has been the most aggressive of the Atlantic provinces in the past in looking at ways to use this to bring both anglophones and francophones to the province. Certainly in the case of New Brunswick, there are some real opportunities to use this to attract francophones.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you, Mr. Simard.

The floor is yours, Ms. Barbot.

[Vivian Barbot, Bloc, Papineau, QC]

Good morning, Minister. Thank you for being here today.

The issues surrounding immigration are extremely complex, particularly when it comes to encouraging French speakers to settle in provinces other than Québec. As the population pool in question is very limited in size, it is difficult to introduce effective measures. It is difficult to implement an action plan that will truly create ideal conditions for first attracting people and then holding onto them. A number of people have told us that the plan has serious shortcomings on this front, making it difficult for us to know where exactly we are heading.

For example, the plan does not provide us with an overview of the situation. It does not explain what our starting point is. It provides us with various insights and statistics but, at the same time, informs us that there has been no specific study into the current or targeted number of immigrants in Canada. By way of example, we are told that Canada plans to open its doors to 225,000 to 255,000 immigrants in 2006.

When the plan was launched, you and Ms. Verner opted to maintain the initial targets, meaning that you intend for 4.4 per cent of Canada's immigrants in 2008 to be French speakers who would settle in communities in provinces other than Québec. If immigration levels were to remain stable between now and then, that would mean that French-speaking communities outside Quebec would welcome between 9,900 and 11,200 French-language immigrants per year. However, the same plan also forecasts that 15,000 French-speaking immigrants will settle in provinces other than Quebec over the next five years. This gives us an entirely different figure, and one that is four times less than the official target.

When members of the steering committee appeared before us they explained that this confusion has stemmed from a change in the definition. Under the terms of the new definition, the target is 1.25 per cent, which is equivalent to current levels.

We are finding it difficult to pinpoint the actual target. I would like you to tell us about your targets for 2008 onwards and the instruments you will be using to measure whether they have been met.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you very much for your question.

I guess the answer is that we are setting a more ambitious target, because we are maintaining the 4.4% by 2008, but we are changing the definition of what is a francophone. We want people whose working language is French, because otherwise I think we could meet the target in a superficial way but not really strengthen francophone minority communities, and we don't want to do that; we want to make a good-faith effort to strengthen francophone minority communities. So that is why not only have we changed the definition, but we have maintained the target, and we put in place all kinds of new settlement funding to ensure that we have services that are available to people when they come to these communities and that they are retained in these communities. So I think we've actually added some resources to back up the plan and the new definition.

[Vivian Barbot, Bloc, Papineau, QC]

Could you provide us with some examples of the type of services that you offer and that will help you meet your objective?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

First of all, presently we've started to do some recruitment activities, which we've already described, and I think Daniel Jean described them when he appeared before you earlier. So we're intent upon doing more recruiting, and we have some great partners to do that. It's not just the provinces, but when we go to recruit, we're using the expertise of the minority communities themselves. They come along; they know the types of things that are attractive to immigrants who've already come to their communities. This is very important, and I don't think it can be overstated how valuable it is to have that kind of expertise when we recruit.

Then when we do get people to come to our communities, in the past we've had some services to offer them, but they've been inadequate. The new settlement funding arrangement will ensure that there are more resources for language training, for career training, to help people find housing--all these types of things. It's my hope that those resources, spent wisely, will help us get closer to that target and ultimately achieve that target.

I think it's disingenuous to have a target like that but not have the resources, and I think finally now we have the resources behind it to take some very important steps toward attaining those goals.

[Vivian Barbot, Bloc, Papineau, QC]

You spoke about attracting immigrants to the regions. In Québec, we have invested a great deal in this, but have made scant headway.

In light of this reality, are you planning on introducing new and innovative measures?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

One of the things I've learned is that when it comes to immigration and attracting people outside of large cities, you need to have a critical mass of people from a community, so that when immigrants come they can feel at home in that community.

I want to give you an example. The community I live in—Brooks, Alberta—was a small oil and gas and farming community for years and years. About ten years ago the meat packing plant expanded there, and they couldn't find workers from within Canada. Soon, many refugees, in particular from Sudan, but from all across Africa and really from around the world started to come. Now there are different communities within Brooks that are welcoming to new immigrants; now there's a bit of a critical mass. You have people from all around the globe who come and end up staying now for longer periods of time than they used to, because they can work and there is a welcoming community.

Of course, the community of Brooks is two hours away from Calgary. It's a rural community. Interestingly, not long ago they formed a new francophone organization in Brooks. It's l'Association francophone de Brooks. It's probably, as far as I know, the only one in southern Alberta outside of Calgary. This would be for immigrants from places like Rwanda and Congo and so on. So it can happen, but it requires a number of different things to come together: jobs, a welcoming community, and of course some leadership, typically especially from the immigrant community, but also of course from people who are already in the community and who can help.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you very much, Mr. Minister.

The member for Acadie—Bathurst will be asking the next question.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning, Minister. I believe this is the first time that we have met since your appointment, even though it took place approximately nine months ago.

One thing concerns me, and I would like to know what the government intends to do in this area. Quebec has immigration offices in several countries. I understand; that is not a problem. Quebec is promoting francophone immigration to Canada. I have visited other countries where Quebec was not present, and it seems as though Canada has no presence in the Francophonie. It is as if we expect Quebec alone to attract immigrants to Canada. Obviously they attempt to bring them to Quebec; that is normal. In Canadian Embassies in certain countries, there is not even information provided in French, nothing is translated into French. I have often found that because I travel everywhere, I have been to a number of countries. You arrive at the embassy and it is insulting to find that there is a lack of information in French. It seems to me that if there is no information at the embassy and if there are francophones in the country...

Who at the embassy is responsible for speaking with the local people and promoting francophone immigration to Moncton, Caraquet or Shippagan? With all due respect, Quebec is not responsible for that. It promotes immigration to Quebec, to attract immigrants to the regions of Quebec. I understand that. The federal government has given Quebec some of the responsibility for immigration, so that it can attract the francophones to Quebec. We, the francophones outside Quebec, are missing the boat, as we say in the baie des Chaleurs.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

First of all, thank you for your question. If in fact there are embassies where we do not provide brochures in both languages, that's not acceptable. I would be pleased if you were to provide specific examples. I would be happy to follow up with respect to it.

One thing we are doing is developing more information services on the Internet in both languages. Our “Going to Canada” portal on the Internet will have very extensive services. It already has extensive services, obviously in both languages. We intend to drive more of the inquiries about Canada to the Internet, but that said, I take your criticism. If there are examples of this, we'll follow up and make sure those brochures are in both languages, absolutely.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I will ask you another question.

You know, Mr. Minister Solberg, that before you got your limousine, you would take a taxi as would I, to go to the airport. How many times have you and I spoken to taxi drivers who turned out to be professionals? I use this as an example. These are people who live here in Canada, and who have training and so forth.

The committee is studying the issue of French in the health care sector, while there are qualified people whose credentials are not being recognized.

This morning, members of one group told us that the problem these professionals have is not really their training, but that it is rather an issue having to do with their culture, customs, roots, etc.

What will happen in the future? Do you have any programs that will allow these people to integrate into Canadian society? I find this situation most unfortunate. It would be a different story if we had a surplus of professionals, but that is not the case. They closed the hospital in Caraquet because of a shortage of doctors; they closed the hospital in Dalhousie because of a shortage of doctors; they closed the hospital in Lamèque because there was a shortage of professionals. In the meantime, we are getting into taxis and talking to drivers some of whom are doctors, but they are doctors who cannot practise their profession.

I would like to know once and for all what your department is doing. We can talk all we want, but when you were in the opposition, you talked and talked and talked. Now that you are on the government side, we want to know what you intend to do to allow these people to practise their trade, which is something they love. I find that this is an unacceptable loss.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

First of all, my limousine is a Buick Impala, but that's okay.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I have a Grand Prix and it's not a limousine.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Your point is an important one. In the budget, to try to unknot this problem, we announced $18 million in funding for consultations with the provinces, professional bodies, new immigrants, and the business community. There are some good signs. Some provinces are very aggressive on this. Quebec, in particular, has done a great job. I've talked often with Lise Thériault regarding what they've done with doctors. In the spring, they will be introducing legislation that will require the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons and the Quebec Medical Association to work with foreign-trained doctors. They will have to do more than provide them with testing. They will have to mentor them so that they can pass the tests. The problem is partly with procedures and that kind of thing, but very often it's also with the technical vocabulary. So they will get help with this, so that they can pass the test. In exchange for all this, they will often agree to work for a while in rural areas. Eventually they can go and work wherever they wish. Part of the agreement is that they go through this process.

Ontario is now taking some steps. My hope is that the federal government can help to coordinate and share best practices with all the provinces. My department plans to be more aggressive in our missions. We mean to be clear with people proposing to come to Canada. We will tell them that just having a medical degree doesn't mean they can automatically practice in Canada. Then we will help them find out what they need to do, depending on which jurisdiction they're going to, to decide if they want to upgrade before they go, or if they even want to go to that jurisdiction. Basically, we want to let them know what they're up against before they come. Also, once they get here, we will help them navigate their way to the right people in whatever province they're going to, to find out what they need to do to meet the criteria so that they can practice in their field.