Evidence of meeting #17 for Official Languages in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was immigrants.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Guy Lauzon
Good morning to you all. I'd like to welcome our guests. During the first hour, we will hear from two representatives of the Cité collégiale: Ms. Andrée Lortie, the President of the college, and Ms. Linda Cloutier, the Director of Health Sciences.
Ms. Lortie will give a presentation, copies of which will be handed out.
Ms. Lortie, you may begin.
9:05 a.m.
Andrée Lortie President, La Cité Collégiale
We thought we'd make the presentation a bit livelier and more interesting than ordinary, but you can follow along with the photocopies. If you will, I will now begin.
First, I would like to thank you for inviting us to speak about an issue that is very dear to us, ie, French language training in the health sector, in minority communities.
I know that several people around this table are familiar with the Cité collégiale. Some of you might not be so acquainted with it. The Cité is a community college of applied arts and technology in Ontario. There are two French-language colleges in Ontario : the Cité collégiale, in Ottawa, and the Collège Boréal, in Sudbury.
The Cité collégiale opened in 1990. We serve approximately 16,000 students/clients a year, including some 3,000 to 3,500 full-time, post-secondary students who are registered in one, two or three-year programs. In the health sector, approximately one third of our programs are in community services. This is a very important sector, which attracts many students.
Today, I would like to talk to you about our commitment within the CNFS, the Consortium national de formation en santé. In passing, slide number 4 lists all the health programs offered at the Cité collégiale. In fact, they are listed on slides 4 and 5. I will not enumerate them all. The list does give you an idea of the type of programs offered at the Cité. There are three-year programs, such as the respiratory therapy program, and two-year programs, such as the dental hygiene and paramedic programs. We also offer continuing education programs.
The Cité collégiale has been part of the Consortium national de formation en santé for a number of years.
The consortium is an association that was created three years ago; it comprises ten educational institutions in Canada, outside Québec. The consortium includes three colleges: the Collège Boréal, the Cité collégiale and the Collège communautaire du Nouveau-Brunswick. The consortium also includes seven universities, which are listed here: the University of Sainte-Anne in Nova Scotia, the University of Ottawa, the University of Moncton — there are universities from all over — and the Collège universitaire in Saint-Boniface, Manitoba. The consortium is made up of these ten institutions.
The mandate of the consortium is to train health professionals in French in order to provide care and services to francophone minority communities. You have all heard of the problems and labour shortages in the health sector. The federal government's initial objective to increase as quickly as possible the number of professionals able to work in French. In francophone minority communities, this is a real problem because there often are no professionals able to serve francophones. This leads to serious problems, particularly in long-term care, for instance, in senior citizens' homes that hire practical nurses. We know that our seniors often have a hard time speaking English. And several studies have shown how important it is to be provided with health care services in one's own language. The consortium's mandate, therefore, is to address those issues.
The objectives of the consortium are to be aware of the needs of each community and encourage professionals to become part of those communities. The objective is not only to train health professionals, but to ensure as much as possible that they return to their communities of origin, once they have completed their studies, and to encourage access to training by all sorts of means, including distance education, partnerships and cooperation, without trying to reinvent the wheel at each step of the way. As you know, health is an area of provincial jurisdiction.
In francophone minority communities, there is little critical mass and resources are limited. Little can be done without partnerships, coordination and cooperation.
I would now like to talk about the value added of the consortium. I will do so briefly because I then want to talk about the impact it has had on the Cité collégiale. Of course, there is increased cooperation and greater networking between post-secondary institutions. Health and education are two areas with provincial jurisdiction. In many cases, minority communities work in silos, with few resources. In Ontario, for example, we are quite privileged. The province has two French-language and 22 English-language community colleges.
The problem in British Columbia and Manitoba, however, is more acute. British Columbia does not have an accredited, college-level institution. The Éducacentre College is doing some interesting things, but it is alone. In such cases, when you are working in an area of purely provincial jurisdiction and trying to provide training or develop study programs and course material, it is really very difficult to move things forward. This is where the consortium's value added of building partnerships between post-secondary institutions becomes meaningful.
Partnerships are also encouraged between health organizations and francophone communities. Although the consortium is an association of institutions, it also works with health centres, hospitals and senior citizens homes in the minority communities. The Société Santé en français, whose representatives appeared before you quite recently, if I am not mistaken, works very closely with consortium stakeholders.
As you are well aware, there are two solitudes in Canada: colleges and universities. There is no communication between the two. More and more students fail to understand this solitude. Whether they want to pursue college studies, work, go to university or transfer from college to university, students are paying the price for this situation, particularly when they try to have their courses accredited. Such is the case in several provinces, but not all. In fact, some provinces have developed very interesting initiatives. We, the members of the consortium, work together. We are forced to talk to each other which is a very good thing. We are in the process of establishing bonds.
Isolation leads to an under-appreciation of French-language health services in minority communities. Health professionals are often very isolated in their communities. In many instances, they will move to major cities, where there is a critical mass. This is really unfortunate because our small communities have enormous needs.
With regard to value added, I would like to talk about the specific example of the Cité collégiale. There are 10 such institutions. We have facilitated access, which has led to 410 additional registrations, or an increase of some 55 per cent over projections.
When the consortium was created, we had to apply and specify the number of registrations we planned to receive. Phase 2 of the consortium still has two years left to run. So far, we have obtained 410 additional registrations, i.e., registrations we would not have had without the consortium's funding. I will indicate which sectors benefited a little later on. I represent a college, and there are three. There are also seven universities. After only three years, we have had 110 additional graduates. This represents an increase of 108 per cent over projections, which is enormous.
Why are there fewer graduates? Well, because study programs last one, two or three years, and it takes some time before students graduate. That is even more so with medical studies at university.
The radiation oncology program has been developed but will only be launched in September 2007. We have developed a partnership with the University of Ottawa. There are huge needs in radiation-oncology. This will be a 2-2 program, or two years at both the college and university levels. The program will be launched next September.
There are also the paramedic programs. We even trained paramedics for anglophone cities such as Toronto. We were surprised when the City of Toronto called us asking for bilingual graduates. They asked us to send them some. Last year, Toronto hired seven paramedic graduates. We were not expecting that. We usually get this type of request from Ottawa, Sudbury or Moncton, but coming from the City of Toronto, that was somewhat surprising.
The new programs being developed include palliative care.
We have also developed some partnership programs that are unique in Canada, such as the clinical electro-neurophysiology program. If you ask me what this program is about, I would not be able to answer. That is why Linda is here with me this morning. So that is a new program.
There is also an autism program. Increasingly, parents are asking that schools hire professionals to work with autistic children. This is a whole new area. The Cité collégiale has announced some 14 courses.
The new partnerships have led to the creation of many new sites for clinical placements. Why are clinical placements important? In the course of training health professionals, we have to encourage regional retention, that is to say that people return to their home communities. We could take the example of Hearst or any other town for that matter. We determined that 75 % of students who do their internships at local hospitals are hired to stay on after they graduate. That way, students return to their communities of origin. These new sites for clinical placements are crucial, with regard to regional retention. Partnerships with other institutions are also important. I would like to give you some examples of new partnerships that have been developed.
The Éducacentre College in British Columbia was able to launch a program for personal support workers. The program trains people who provide long-term care for older people. This new program is offered in class in Vancouver and through distance education in Victoria and Whitehorse, Yukon. This brand new program was made possible thanks to the Consortium.
Together with New Brunswick, we developed palliative care and electro-physiology programs for college students. I mention it in passing because I mostly want to give you examples. At the Collège Boréal, in northern Ontario, there has been sharing and development teaching material for existing programs.
Sainte-Anne University, in Nova Scotia, wanted to offer a paramedic program. The people responsible were unable to develop such a program, but the Consortium was able to help them out. It worked with them to adapt the curriculum and develop teaching material.
Because health is a provincial area of jurisdiction, I want to underscore the fact that transferring programs that were created in one province to another is not always an easy task. In fact, standards vary from one province to another. We therefore have to see how existing programs can be adapted to different provincial standards, as we did in the case of Nova Scotia. We cannot simply transfer a program, we have to find ways to develop and adapt it, and make sure it complies with provincial standards.
In the university sector, there are joint offers of nursing programs. I have already spoken about radiation-oncology. I have also listed the names of partners in health services: Montfort Hospital, les Soeurs de la Charité of Ottawa, the Ottawa General Hospital and the Sudbudy Hospital. In New Brunswick, placements are being considered for programs not being offered, in such areas as respiratory therapy. At Bathurst Hospital, Enfant-Jésus Hospital in Caraquet, the Regional Hospital of Campbellton and Georges-Dumont Hospital, we were able to develop placements together with the New Brunswick Community College in Campbellton.
There is an example in Manitoba. We also have examples for placement sites in British Columbia.
In the handout, you will also find examples in the community sector. I remind you that our college has developed agreements with these centres.
I know wish to talk about the question of value added.
Up until now, I've spoken to you about value added in its relation to access. The notion of value added also comes into play in the quality and relevance of programs. The Cité collégiale was able to hire additional teachers and strike advisory committees made up of approximately 400 people.
We were also able to develop pedagogical material and purchase new equipment. For better or for worse, the health care sector is one in which training cannot be easily provided because of the very high cost. As you know, equipment used in the health care sector evolves very quickly.
Linda, would you like to comment?
October 24th, 2006 / 9:20 a.m.
Linda Cloutier Director of Health sciences, La Cité Collégiale
The equipment is highly specialized and must be a realistic reflection of the workplace. We have for you a few images showing technological developments involving mannequins. We have various health care training programs. We use different types of mannequins. For dental hygiene, students work on a simulated mouth. Here, you see an entire mannequin. We also use half mannequins, so on an so forth.
9:20 a.m.
Director of Health sciences, La Cité Collégiale
That is not a baby. We added the picture to show you that we use leading-edge mannequins for simulations of health problems, such as heart attacks, hyperglycemia, etc.
9:20 a.m.
President, La Cité Collégiale
Health care training is very expensive. What are the challenges? The greatest challenge is recruitment and making sure the students succeed. Remote areas are undergoing a decrease in population. We often carry out recruitment activities, and the CNFS consortium is trying to find ways to increase the number of students.
Graduates of immersion programs and francophone immigrants are an absolutely incredible source of students, despite the accommodations that must be made. Immersion students and francophone immigrants, most of whom are first generation immigrants, must be integrated successfully into the workplace.
Allow me to share a brief anecdote. We offer a practical nursing program. In our long-term care centre based here in Ottawa, we noticed that our interns were leaving the program. In theory, they were doing very well, but they were dropping out of their placements. We met with people from the health centre and we found that clients aged 80, 82 or 85 were very aggressive and negative because they did not wish to be cared for by a non-white student. Those senior citizens were extremely harsh towards our female students.
It is very difficult to change an 80, 85, or 90-year-old. We then decided to organize many work sessions with our own students to teach them how to deal with this very specific situation and how to change it. After the workshops were held, we noticed an incredible increase in the success rate. The female students remained in the program. This proves that in dealing with different students, particularly new immigrants or first generation people, programs must be adapted if we want to succeed.
Another challenge is that of obtaining health care professionals in our regions. I already spoke about this and will not repeat myself.
Recruitment can often be difficult, particularly in a context where the health care profession is viewed negatively, and is seen as one that is not easy. In addition, students are very much attracted to English-speaking institutions, because they are bigger and well known, and often they end up working in English rather than in French. This is a challenge facing all the institutions in the consortium.
Another huge challenge is serving remote regions by means of e-learning and distance learning. E-learning is very expensive and is not easy; it must be done properly. In addition, health care training requires one-on-one meetings. Techniques can be taught, but attitudes must also be taught, which is not an easy thing to do from afar.
Recruitment of specialized professionals also is another challenge. People are under the assumption that the Cité collégiale hires frequently because they're constantly running across our ads in the newspapers. Sometimes we have to run an ad for a position four times before hiring someone; we have discovered that we have to actively recruit. This is a challenge for the entire consortium.
It is also difficult to find placements for students.This must be negotiated. Earlier, I showed you the long list of partnerships for a single institution. This involves to meetings with care centres and hospitals to discuss practicum programs and so on.
I will not reiterate my comments on the very high cost of equipment. You are very familiar with the other challenges: the lack of pedagogical material, working in a setting that is changing at an incredible rate, and lastly the fact that health care comes under provincial jurisdiction.
For the Cité collégiale, the consortium has been a huge success. Why? Because we have seen that there is now greater access for our communities. Enrolment in the programs and the number of graduates have increased.
I took the liberty of focusing on the impact in the workplace. People from Saint-Boniface Hospital told me that when they began receiving French-speaking students, they discovered that some of their regular employees who never spoke French at work, were in fact francophones. They also discovered that there were anglophones who knew French. These placements had an impact on the hospital, on its ability and willingness to provide services in French. This is an outcome that cannot be easily quantified.
I talked about creating a synergy with teaching institutions, colleges and universities and with the community. With regard to developing national projects, I gave you the example of immigrants, first generation professionals. Instead of having ten projects throughout Canada, we wondered how we could develop best practices to ensure the integration, success and recruiting of our immigrants and newcomers.
The benefits are obviously the increased creation and development of programs and cooperation among the partners.
In conclusion, I want to make two points. Often, people wonder why the federal government supports one project at a time in health and education, which are two areas under provincial jurisdiction. What is it doing in these areas?
It is absolutely essential that this support be continued when it's a matter of francophones living in a minority situation. You know that there will be new discussions or negotiations on a phase 3 for 2008-2013. Not only must we support francophones, but we must absolutely ensure that this support is increased. In fact, the Canadian cooperation that has allowed interprovincial exchanges is not something that naturally occurs in areas under provincial jurisdiction. This is not done. This is not something that is necessarily considered as desirable.
Mr. Chairman, I apologize for taking so much time.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Guy Lauzon
Thank you, Ms. Lortie. We have a problem: we do not have a lot of time for questions. We will begin with a first round, but we will be limiting the time of each questioner to four minutes. If there is any time remaining, there will be a second round.
We will begin with Mr. Rodriguez. You have four minutes. Both the questions and the answers must be very brief.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The chair's comments are quite relevant. If I may give some advice, it would be to shorten your presentation. Generally, this allows us more time to interact with you and thus obtain the information we need. This also benefits you.
Thank you for coming this morning. You have ties to institutions everywhere. Do you have such ties to institutions in Quebec? I have not noticed any.
9:30 a.m.
President, La Cité Collégiale
With regard to the CNFS, there are some things happening in Quebec concerning the training of doctors, in cooperation with the Université de Sherbrooke. Often, when we have shortages or problems with equipment, we create our own ties to some CEGEPs, be they in Sainte-Foy, Quebec City, or Laval. A relationship is forged. Ahuntsic is also an excellent example. Things are being done.
The answer is yes.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
9:30 a.m.
President, La Cité Collégiale
The CNFS is in favour of retaining people in areas outside Quebec.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
That's preferable. However, sometimes, perhaps instinctively, it's easier to go to...
9:30 a.m.
President, La Cité Collégiale
It would be easier, but much is done to ensure that this does not happen to those enrolled in the CNFS.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
Okay.
Are these basically the same programs provided at universities?
9:30 a.m.
President, La Cité Collégiale
No. The universities offer all the medical programs, for example, at the University of Ottawa and at Laurentian University. There are nursing programs.
Linda.
9:30 a.m.
Director of Health sciences, La Cité Collégiale
In fact, health care programs at universities do not train general practitioners, but rather people who have increased knowledge in health care disciplines. The colleges provide highly technical training that concentrates on specific techniques.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
9:30 a.m.
President, La Cité Collégiale
Absolutely, the CNFS program is funded by Health Canada.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
Right.
How could the Government of Canada help you, if we were to reflect together on what could be done to help you?
9:30 a.m.
President, La Cité Collégiale
The project is due to end in two years. The CNFS is already in the process of developing a renewal submission for 2008. We are working closely with Health Canada officials. Mr. Clement's Francophone Advisory Committee is very familiar with the CNFS issue.
If you want to help us, we would ask that you support our next submission.