Official Languages Committee on Nov. 7th, 2006

[Rodrigue Landry]

First, I think I'll answer the second question because it involves a number of things.

I drew an analogy with a community party. When I talk about the public, I'm not talking about organizations; I'm talking about civil society, about the society that takes part and that is well aware of its rights.

That wasn't a criticism I was making of a government. This kind of thing is normal when you're in a minority situation. For an ordinary parent who is trying to earn a living and give his or her children certain goods, linguistic concerns are not always the most important ones. Many immigrants and minorities assimilate because they think there are more important things in life, and so on. That, in a way, creates habits.

I was talking about the general public. There are a lot of good things in the action plan, but it's as though no one had ever included a public awareness campaign. That's the point I wanted to raise.

The organizations know their rights. I'm not worried about them. They're even very good in their representations. It's different in the case of the general public. Currently, two-thirds of parents who are Francophone rights holders live in an exogamous situation. That's more than 80% in all the western provinces. That's not a minor point. These parents must really be made aware of their rights and know that there are opportunities that yield excellent results. The solution is ultimately so simple. That's what's frustrating.

This is a choice, and, of course, it's the parents who must make it. Parents won't be forced to send their children to French school. They have to make an informed choice in knowledge of the facts. They have to know that the children of these families who go to French school will, once they're finished, be the best bilinguals in the country.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

And what about the responsibility of the departments?

[Rodrigue Landry]

I'm not an expert on that. However, I think that, regardless of the colour of the government, if there were genuine leadership, the federal government would seek to forge ties with the other provincial ministries in order to form a whole.

For example, while we have a right to schools, we have no right as regards early childhood. Sixty percent of these children could go to French school if their parents were aware of the fact and if there was a child care system associated with the school. That has an enormous impact on the Francophone community. Since there's no coordination of services, everyone acts individually. Everyone does their own little part, and there's no whole.

I believe Manitoba was the first province to sign an agreement. I think the CNPF, the Commission nationale des parents francophones, signed agreements on child care with virtually all the provinces. There had to be special assistance for child care. I don't know the details of the agreements, but I've been told that they clearly provided for assistance for official language minorities. The present government came in with a new vision and doesn't appear to want to resolve the situation immediately.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Ms. Boucher.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you all for being here. You're enlightening us a great deal on what you're experiencing.

We're here as the government to listen to you, to see what is going on in the field and to take the public's pulse. You know that our government will be creating 125,000 child care spaces. I dare hope that you'll have all the spaces we'll be creating for you.

Furthermore, we hear a lot about challenges. I'm going to put my question to Ms. Thorne.

You talked about the challenges you're facing. I'd like to know what your biggest immediate challenge is. I'd also like to know what achievement you're most proud of. We know you've had achievements, and I'd like you to tell us about them, please.

[Lizanne Thorne]

Right now, our greatest challenge is to provide adequate support to our community school centres because they're really the developmental core of our communities. Our regions are so isolated and we don't have the critical mass, as a result of which it's impossible for these centres to become self-sufficient, to be business entities, if you will.

Since the centres were developed, we've been trying to become more efficient. We've conducted a number of restructuring and redevelopment exercises. A human resources redeployment process is currently under way to increase our efficiency and to see if there wouldn't be a better way to do things. Here again, we can't balance our budgets. Funding is distinctly inadequate: heating costs are rising, we can't offer competitive salaries, and we have enormous staff turnover. The people in place have made an extraordinary commitment, but, if we can't be competitive, those people will go to work for the provincial or federal government. We're a training centre for the governments, and we do a good job because they're always pleased to have them.

That's our major challenge. First we need adequate facilities. Not all centres can be called “community school centres”. In the leased spaces, there are only classrooms; there isn't even a gymnasium or music room or theatre. It's very hard to be self-sufficient when you don't have facilities to provide adequate services.

Furthermore, we can always try to supplement our budgets and sell our services. Sometimes we're not carrying out our mandate. We can't reach our clientele when we want, since we have to put on Anglophone shows and Anglophone groups use our facilities so that we can pay the bills.

That, to a large degree, is our biggest challenge right now. Human resources, facilities and financial resources can't meet current needs. The other side of the coin is that the creation of these schools and centres is probably our biggest success. And we see it spreading. We are recovering a lost generation, and even two generations in certain regions.

In Souris and Rustico, for example, we owe the survival of the language to grandparents and, in some instances, great-grandparents, who are Acadians, because Francophones have not had the opportunity for a number of generations to be educated in French. But these people are proud. We see it in their faces, just as we see it in the communities. They register their children in French schools without knowing a single word of French, but that's what they want for their children. They take French courses so that they can have conversations with their children in French.

All that gives visibility to a community that has linguistic duality. All this belongs to us as Canadians. In Prince Edward Island, we're transmitting it in an incredible manner. That's our greatest pleasure. Our greatest pleasure is also to go into a region where you don't expect to have a meeting in French and suddenly to meet a parents committee in which 12 parents try to speak a language they scarcely know in order to communicate with us. They show us that they're proud, that, even though it's unfortunate that they didn't have a chance to go to a French school, they don't want to lose another generation. So these parents enrol their children in a school that's completely inadequate, when, just opposite, or nearly opposite, another school has everything, but is virtually empty because of declining birth rates.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Now it's Mr. André's turn.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

If the Court Challenges Program disappears, that may be a major setback for Francophone communities outside Quebec. Do you see any other solutions? If this program disappears, what will we do? How will we get organized? How will we succeed, ultimately, in asserting our rights and needs?

On another point, have the cuts to literacy programs affected you? I'd like you to tell me about that.

Then, with regard to economic development, Ms. Gilman, you said that feasibility studies were being funded, but not actual projects. Are there currently any projects in Prince Edward Island that are important for promoting La Francophonie and culture and that are lacking resources? Are there any major, structural initiatives for the Francophone community of Prince Edward Island that are lacking resources?

Three questions in five minutes, that's good.

[Julie Gilman]

Yes, there's one. In Prince Edward Island, the network has prepared an action plan for contracting for health services in French. It's a great plan, very detailed, very feasible, but there's no funding anywhere to implement it. It would be important for health services in French in Prince Edward Island for the federal government funding program to release money in order to move this matter forward.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Isn't the announced funding consistent with the action plan?

[Julie Gilman]

No, not right now. To my knowledge, no program can help implement this program.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

As regards the Court Challenges Program, do you see any solutions or ways of offsetting it? I believe that literacy is Ms. Thorne's field.

[Lizanne Thorne]

As regards the Court Challenges Program, our relations with our provincial government have been the most critical for us.

As I said earlier, I don't think that there's a lack of will most of the time. Our provincial government lacks resources to meet its educational obligations towards its Francophone minority. If the federal government and our provincial government formed a more solid partnership, so that our government could have the necessary funding to meet the needs of our communities, I'm pretty sure it would meet its obligations in this area.

Our minister said it at the ministerial conference. It's thanks to the Court Challenges Program that Prince Edward Island was able to get its schools. That's the way the funding goes when you're dealing with a major deficit: it's hard to make a decision involving large amounts of money for a minority. It's hard for a government in a deficit situation.

Furthermore, that's also transposed to our next plan, regarding the Court Challenges Program, which was more focused on early childhood services. In Prince Edward Island, early childhood services are viewed more as part of the private domain. That's quite true for Anglophones, who enjoy a broad variety of services. It's a fairly lucrative business for Anglophones. However, for Francophones, it's harder to recruit human resources, and material resources are much more costly. In addition, since there's only one centre per region and our population is smaller, our services are aimed exclusively at the elites. And that's not really what we want; we want the service to be accessible to everyone.

Twelve hundred dollars a year doesn't necessarily promote access to this service, particularly when people have to travel an extra hour to drop their children off at Francophone day care centres.

In our view, a greater commitment by the federal government toward the provincial government would definitely be an asset that would fill the void created by the cancellation of the Court Challenges Program.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Will the literacy cuts affect you?

[Lizanne Thorne]

Absolutely.

This isn't necessarily my field, but I know that the illiteracy rate among the Francophones of Prince Edward Island is much higher than among Anglophones. Many people 40 to 60 years of age were educated in a language that was not their own. They were forced to attend Anglophone schools, so that they sometimes have trouble in both English and French.

This is a major challenge in our rural communities. In all regions, we're still facing major problems with family literacy. We were just starting to take major steps. We were starting to be able to offer programs providing tools in French.

I repeat that, when we need tools for any teaching, support or screening program, they cost a lot more because we don't have tools available to us in our province.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

I'm going to pass my turn this time. We're going to start another round, which will be of three minutes.

I'm also going to allow Mr. Petit to ask a question. In doing this kind of round, we give all members a chance to ask questions.

Mr. D'Amours, you have three minutes for questions and answers.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I understood. I also thank you for giving us your time. That's very much appreciated.

My riding, Madawaska—Restigouche, comprises a portion of northern New Brunswick. It's hard to attract and retain health professionals, even in a region where the percentage of Francophones is very high.

Do you have any miracle methods for attracting and retaining health professionals in your various communities? Do they work well? If so, have you done certain things? Have you relied on something like La grande séduction to convince professionals to stay in the regions?

[Jeannita Bernard]

That's virtually all we have, our beautiful countryside and our quality of life. We're all in the same boat. We train people in Prince Edward Island, and, in spite of everything, some nurses choose to move to Alberta. The current lack of mobility among the population also affects us a great deal.

Right now we're trying to work together with an immigration coop, which could perhaps help us fill a few positions in the health field, but we have the same problem as all the Maritime provinces. That problem is even more serious in Prince Edward Island because it is doubly difficult to live there in French.

As Ms. Gilman mentioned, we have a plan to remedy the labour retention problem and to establish a Francophone presence in all the health institutions of Prince Edward Island, if only by filling three-quarters of the positions. But staffing those positions requires funding, and we don't have it.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Ms. Gilman, we recently met the president of the Consortium national de formation en santé, Mr. Patry, in Ottawa. He told us that funding was to be renewed in 2008 and that not much was currently being done. Ultimately, there is some urgency in your case because, if your funding isn't renewed, the crisis could worsen in your region. If you're already in one, it could be amplified...

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Thank you, Mr. D'Amours; your 20 seconds are up.

Mr. Petit.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you all for being here [Technical difficulty—Editor].

As Mr. Godin said, this is the first time in 25 years that we've visited the minority communities. I'm pleased it's my government that's doing it, and, since I'm newly elected, I'm taking advantage of the opportunity.

Mr. Landry, you also mentioned, and perhaps you're going to cover [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

I think our technical difficulties are being caused by the BlackBerries. I suggest we turn those devices off during the meeting.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Mr. Landry, you mentioned a number of things that drew my attention.

First of all, I'm the product of an exogamous marriage and my children are as well. I can travel just as well among the people of the Anglophone minority as among those of the Francophone minority. I know virtually all the related problems.

We advocate an open federalism, but there's a provincial element. You all spoke about your respective provinces. Mr. Landry, you said that the present action plan should perhaps take the provinces into account so that we get along better with them.

Can you talk about that more?

[Rodrigue Landry]

I recently wrote an article on the subject, and our brief cites it in the references. I'm going to use Ms. Thorne's example, which illustrates the subject well.

The community school centre is a good example of the vitality of the minority communities, which the Official Languages Act aims to promote. And Bill C-3 reinforces that act.

Education is a provincial jurisdiction. If the provincial government says that it has a duty to attend to the school component and the federal government addresses the community component, we get a good mix, with a great community school centre as a result. That centre would offer community activities enabling all generations to meet in the context of all kinds of activities. For young people, there'd be a school. We could even add a day care centre to it.

With this kind of institution, you provide what the community is lacking. This is all the more important in the major urban centres, where it's very hard to find a school near home.

This is a good example of cooperation.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Thank you, Mr. Landry.

Mr. André.