Official Languages Committee on Nov. 10th, 2006

[Vivian Barbot, Bloc, Papineau, QC]

Yes.

[Marc-André Larouche]

Well, the area of Sudbury where, with one exception and some gaps here and there, services in French are actually the best structured of anywhere. In the North Bay or Sault Ste. Marie region, however, when you're Francophone, you don't even tell anyone. People don't feel confident and enough to be proactive. Seniors who need service do not speak French simply because they are Francophone.

[Vivian Barbot, Bloc, Papineau, QC]

What are you doing to try and counter that phenomenon? In Quebec we have experienced the same sort of thing. There was a time when people wanted to be assimilated. There was a kind of social opprobrium attached to being Francophone: if you didn't speak English, you were a nobody. And people themselves bought into that notion and sent their children to English schools. We had to pass Bill 101 to counter the exodus of Francophones to the English-speaking community.

Does the action plan under which you are carrying out your activities include public awareness initiatives?

[Marc-André Larouche]

This problem can be attributed to several factors. You talked about a public awareness problem, which is a long-standing one. It may be difficult to raise awareness, though, because some are more resistant to this than others; but we really have no choice.

In the health care sector, public awareness can take the form of cultural sensitivity training on the importance of being different and the value-added it brings. That kind of training should already be available, but it is not. We have to start educating people and encouraging them to be more open-minded.

There are also some tactical issues which are not static. I referred earlier to the Sturgeon Falls region near North Bay, which is a small, very Anglophone community where, even though 25% of the population is Francophone, very few services are available in French.

We are trying to build on existing French services. Our partners in Sturgeon Falls, who are very Francophone and very much aware of the French fact, have links with the health care system in the North Bay area. They do have some Francophone contacts. Someone said earlier that we have to rally people to our cause. Yet it's only by giving them state-of-the-art tools in French that we will achieve that.

Let me give you an example. Continuing education in French in the health care sector has often been considered to be second-class. It's pretty good training, but it's far from being of the same calibre as the kind of training course where an international expert comes and spends a whole day presenting the most up-to-date techniques.

The situation has started to improve. We brought in a long-term care specialist of international renown from Quebec. A health care professional told us that every region can access Francophone professionals using Telehealth technology. Another one told us that it was the best training she had ever received.

That strategy is prompting people to sit up and take notice. You raise people's awareness not only by changing their convictions, but also by giving them the most up-to-date tools in French. That is another part of the strategy.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Thank you, Mr. Larouche.

I would like to talk about Part II of the Employment Insurance Act, and in that respect the Liberals have little reason to pat themselves on the back, except insofar as they took $50 billion out of the Employment Insurance Fund to pay down the debt and achieve a zero deficit.

It's true that Ontario is the only province not to have an agreement under Part II. Maybe that is because there are 105 Liberal MPs from Ontario and they didn't want to give the money to the province and allow it to hand out the goodies on its own.

When that happened back home in New Brunswick, we told the federal government that because training is a provincial responsibility, it had no business getting involved. The province asked the government to give it the money under Part II of the Employment Insurance Act, so that it could determine the terms and conditions for training.

Initially, we received $67 million in the first year, which was moved up to $78 million, and then to $93 million. The amount is now some $105 million.

Now it's true that it wasn't written in black and white, or green, red or orange — which is a great colour — but we could not appeal to the province, whereas under the Employment Insurance Act, we were able to do that. In other words, we couldn't challenge its decisions.

Initially, literacy courses were accessible to people with Grade 7, because we wanted to raise their level of education. In our area, for example, people would quit school and begin working in the fish processing plants when they were still young. At one point, there was no more fish in the sea, and the work dried up. So, people had to be retrained and upgrade their skills. However, the province had decided that henceforth, that training would no longer be available to people with Grade 7 or Grade 8; it would only be given to people with a Grade 10 education.

Everyone was stunned. We couldn't ask for more money because the federal government was saying it had already given us $105 million and that we would have to figure it out on our own: we asked for it, and we got it!

I think that is sort of what you're saying, Mr. Hubert. I'd like to hear more from you on that.

[Denis Hubert]

Yes, exactly. When I began at the College, it was in the area of employment. I helped people who were jobless, and so on.

I was saying earlier that there are 42 service centres in Ontario where men and women who are jobless and have lost their way in life receive help. In Ontario, the colleges are service providers for both the federal and provincial governments. We bid on contracts, just as a private firm would, and we deliver training and mentoring products, as well as other services to these kinds of workers.

Too often I would be in an office and find myself in the middle, between the federal and provincial authorities. Some were responsible for the provincial Job Connect program for youth aged 16 to 24 and the others were responsible for the federal Youth Employment Strategy program for youth aged 15 to 30. We couldn't even agree on the age of the client base; also, when the provincial government gave jobless youth $1,000 to go back to work, the federal government would give them $1,100.

So, you're right: for years there was this kind of competition. There were discussions as to whether or not that was training. It is clearly a grey area. We're talking about the situation of a person with no job who is seeking employment and agrees to be retrained. At one point, we would be leaning towards training, and the battle would begin all over again. We were the victims of this sort of misunderstanding, but unfortunately, the client was even more victimized by it.

We have just signed an agreement in Ontario. The process for managing it and the actual name of the project have yet to be defined. We don't know whether it will be called “One Stop Shop”, “No Wrong Door Approach”, or something else altogether. I would like us to focus on attaining our goals, rather than on acronyms. What concerns me is that the federal principles are enshrined in the agreements when they're transferred to the provincial government. We don't want to fall victim to another disagreement between the federal and provincial governments with respect to workers. We want to look after the workers ourselves.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Well, all I can say is good luck.

We had a particular experience in New Brunswick. If you read the proceedings of the parliamentary committee — at the time, Jean-Claude sat on that committee — you'll see that we had recommended that people have the right to appeal. For example, if a client goes to an office and asks to take a training course and the official he happens to be dealing with — having gotten up on the wrong side of the bed that morning — rejects his application, well, it's just too bad, because that client won't get any training. It's as simple as that, and he has no right to appeal.

Also, if that client is not well informed or is referred to the wrong place and registers at college, he won't be told that he is not in the right place or that he has to go back to the Human Resources office. In my case, it is the New Brunswick Human Resources Office. So, if he registers and applies for Employment Insurance benefits, he will be told that because he was not referred by Human Resources, he is ineligible for benefits.

We are not the only ones this happens to. As I say, I know all the ins and outs of this issue, and I know about its effects on the ground. I'm just suggesting you be careful.

Do you wish to comment?

[Denis Hubert]

You are absolutely right, and I feel we can only improve the old system. I've lived with it, or worse. Here we're talking about official languages, but imagine when those people came to the agency and the person greeting them could not speak French. Not only was I losing them or sending them back, I was losing them in English. It was twice as bad.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Yes, indeed.

[Denis Hubert]

I am optimistic. I hope that with the new agreement, the provincial government will be able to better control the situation and draw lessons from what has occurred elsewhere in the country. That way, we may become more effective.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Thank you, Mr. Hubert.

Mr. D'Amours, please.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would like to raise a couple of different points. The longer this discussion lasts, the more information that comes out.

Mr. Hubert, I have a very brief question to which I would ask you to provide a brief answer. You referred to programs like Job Connect and the Youth Employment Strategy. Do you think it's a good idea to provide training to our young people while at the same time allowing them to discover other things elsewhere?

You said that it's a good idea to leave Ontario, but if you stay in Ontario and receive training in New Brunswick, that allows you to discover something else. Do you agree that internships abroad are a good idea?

[Denis Hubert]

Yes, they're absolutely essential, because they broaden people's horizons. I did it, I was there, I learned things, sometimes more than I'd learned at school.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

You experienced that yourself?

[Denis Hubert]

Yes, I did.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

So, if it is a good thing and you know this from experience, that means the $11 million worth of budget cuts to international internships should never have been made?

[Denis Hubert]

Exactly.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Okay. I'll stop there because I could go on for quite some time.

[Denis Hubert]

We should be doubling the subsidy for the Explore Canada program. It invites young people from across the province to go and study in a different institution, in a different language. It is absolutely critical to support that program. It is funded by the Department of Canadian Heritage and allows us to receive 200, 300, or 400 young Anglophones every year, who come to see Francophones in Ontario. In the end, they realize that Francophones don't bite and that they're not as mean as they thought.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

So—

[Denis Hubert]

It's important to maintain that program.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

If you say it's important, that means that you are concerned it may be cut.

[Denis Hubert]

Exactly.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

If it were, that would directly affect your college.

[Denis Hubert]

Yes, directly.