Official Languages Committee on Nov. 21st, 2006

[Duncan Dee]

I hope not.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

A vice-president can become a president.

[Duncan Dee]

That would be a good thing.

Let us go back to your earlier comments on training.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

We agree on training. What I want now is for the bill to be passed.

[Duncan Dee]

In terms of the legislation, we have always said that any Air Canada subsidiary will comply with the spirit of the Official Languages Act.

In terms of the wording of the Act, to be perfectly honest, today we were asked to give you feedback on the committee's report, not the bill. We have not prepared any amendments nor have we prepared any specific feedback.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Mr. Dee, your time is up.

We will now move on to Mr. Simard.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you to our guests.

Mr. Dee, did you take immersion classes?

[Duncan Dee]

No, my French may not be very good. I grew up in Vancouver at a time when there were no French immersion classes. My parents therefore decided to send me to France for eight months so that I could learn French and become a little more Canadian.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you.

I would like to talk about WestJet. I was quite impressed. I don't travel very frequently with WestJet but when I did, I was very impressed with the service in both official languages. I'm rather surprised because this is a company that mainly serves Western Canada. They have understood the importance and commercial benefits of using both official languages.

I would like to talk about the issue of insufficient qualified labour in Western Canada. I don't think that's a good excuse. I come from Winnipeg, which has one of Air Canada's biggest bilingual call centres. You found qualified individuals in that region for that centre. At the same time, Air Canada has laid off staff over the past two or three years. Very competent bilingual francophones have been let go. Perhaps those were people with insufficient seniority but they were very competent. I'm surprised that you can let people go and yet, at the same time, you can't find other candidates.

Could you explain that to me? If you need qualified bilingual employees in Winnipeg, just contact me and I'll give a list tomorrow morning. You're not looking in the right places. There are highly qualified people in our region. I am sure that the same is true of Saskatchewan.

[Duncan Dee]

We need to move forward, seriously. We consulted with Treasury Board as well as with the Official Languages Commission and we asked them to provide us with assistance in recruitment. Perhaps they don't have access to the same networks that you do, as a member of Parliament. Perhaps a real process for consultation with members should be established, in the event that we need to hire in your part of the country. For example, Air Canada Jazz undertook recruitment in the Acadian Peninsula, as well as in Bathurst and francophone regions in New Brunswick, and they succeeded in hiring several qualified candidates, but the candidate had to be transferred to Toronto. You are no doubt aware that many of those people do not want to live outside their region. Employees do not pay for their tickets.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Mr. Dee, a few years ago we heard witnesses who gave us the percentages of Air Canada's clients who were francophones and anglophones. Do you have those numbers?

I believe two-fifths of the clients were francophones. Is that correct?

[Duncan Dee]

It hasn't changed. Our market is made of 25% francophones and 75% anglophones, as is Canada's population. I do not have the most recent numbers with me but I could have them sent to the clerk later. However, I would say that the market has not changed.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Do Air Canada flight attendants who leave Winnipeg, for example, have to be bilingual?

[Duncan Dee]

Are you referring to new or old employees?

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Either. Does a flight attendant on a flight from Winnipeg to Ottawa or Montreal have to be bilingual?

[Duncan Dee]

There has to be at least one bilingual flight attendant on any Air Canada flight. In fact, as I was saying in my opening statement, under the Official Languages Act, they should be able to begin their flying day between two unilingual cities and end it between two bilingual cities. That is better for us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you, Mr. Simard.

Ms. Barbot has the next question.

[Vivian Barbot, Bloc, Papineau, QC]

You said that you are taking all necessary measures and that you have adequate staff, etc. I tend to believe you. However, in reality, we do not get the impression that Air Canada is interesting in serving the francophone population in French. Perhaps that is simply a perception, but all of us could give you specific examples of what is not working. Perhaps we have to approach this differently.

For example, you said that there was always a flight attendant on board who can speak French. I recently travelled on a plane and I was spoken to in English. I therefore made an effort, as the client, and continued to speak in French. Someone was brought to me who could speak French, but throughout the rest of the flight, it was the anglophone employee who dealt with me. In other words, the staff made no extra effort to serve me in French. After they have realized that a client wishes to be served in French, they forget. Perhaps that's where some adjustments need to be made.

[Duncan Dee]

You are completely right, Ms. Barbot. If you are spoken to in the official language that is not your first official language, procedural rules stipulate somebody else must be found in order to serve you in your language for the rest of the flight. I can overlook a small mistake, but during a four-hour flight, if you are being addressed in a language other than your own, this is not only unacceptable,and furthermore it is a breach of our own rules.

The problem is this: since Air Canada acquired Canadian International, the airline has aimed at having 100% of its employees bilingual, which has been the case for the last five years. So long as a certain number of our flight attendants remain unilingual anglophones, incidents such as those will occur. There are people who come from all over the country, and to my mind, this is a matter of respect, and that is why I myself have learned French. Unfortunately, some people do not think that way. For some, if they speak to you in English and if you are too kind to ask them to speak to you in French, that is fine. I can assure you that according to our rules, if a client wishes to be served in the language of his or her choice, and the flight attendant is unable to speak that language, the flight attendant must ask to be replaced by a colleague who is able to communicate fully with the client. The client is of the greatest importance.

[Vivian Barbot, Bloc, Papineau, QC]

Employees do not really comply with that order. It really has to be re-enforced, because clients are exasperated. I stopped asking after having to make too many requests. I let it slide because otherwise, we would have to spend the entire trip complaining, which would be awful. In fact, a trip is awful when one is dissatisfied.

In fact, I am concerned when you say that the proposed legislation does not carry obligations that you are currently fulfilling. To our mind, the bill should improve things. It is a pity that the bill per se is not being discussed. That comment really struck me, and I wondered what was going to happen.

For example, what do you think of the fact that Aeroplan does not provide its services in French, or is not legally bound to provide services in both languages? It's almost as though the client is left to fend for himself and work things out.

[Duncan Dee]

I believe that Aeroplan provides a choice in the language of service. In fact, I would go so far as to say that the number of bilingual employees working at Aeroplan is much higher because their call centres are in Montreal and Vancouver; but it is the Montreal call centre which is expanding and not the Vancouver one.

As for related services provided, section 25 of the Official Languages Act stipulates that services delivered to the public by a third party must be made available in both official languages. This is currently the case.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Mr. Dee, I must interrupt you.

I will ask Ms. Boucher to ask the next questions.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you for coming. As you know, our government's, and our minister's commitment to official languages is unwavering—allow me to insist that it is unwavering. Bill C-29 is a clear illustration of this.

I've been listening to what has been said for some time, and it appears to me that there are concerns over the ability to provide services in both official languages, particularly in French.

My question is for Ms. Louise McEvoy, who is the Manager of Linguistic Services.

Can you describe to us in detail the initiatives and policies that have been implemented by the company to ensure quality of service in both official languages.

[Louise McEvoy, Manager, Linguistic Services, Air Canada]

At the outset, we provide training and language courses in eight Canadian cities: Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Toronto, Montreal, Halifax and Saint John, New Brunswick. Language courses in these eight cities are provided on a regular basis. There are just as many language courses for beginners as there are for intermediate speakers. Our goal is to eventually have only intermediate courses where students work to maintain what they have acquired. As it stands, there are many beginner courses. In 2005, we gave courses to more than 1,500 employees and we have surpassed this figure this year. Employees take French or English courses on a regular basis.

As Mr. Dee was saying, we also provide awareness workshops. In Toronto, the workshop is called French Café. Employees meet with teachers in a room. Employees from my section talk to them about the Act, and educate the employee about their obligations. The teachers tell them how to address a client, for example. An employee very well may end up saying "Sorry, I don't speak French", this is a reality, but it must not be said. We try to educate employees on that issue as well.

In addition to training, employees also take tests. Every two years, we test employees on their second official language even if they have passed a test already. If they do not meet the required level, we send them to another language course.

We offer tests, provide language courses and awareness workshops.

[Duncan Dee]

If I may, I would like to add a comment. Recently, we have noticed that many people are applying for jobs and indicating that they are graduates of immersion programs. Unfortunately, they are unable to pass the tests that we give them. I believe that we need to look very closely at what Canadians schools are doing to train bilingual graduates. We have had problems mostly in Toronto and in Western Canada, where people went to immersion schools. If they are given an exam, they do not pass. The issue is discussed internally. How are we going to encourage young people to learn both official languages? This is a real problem, not only now, but for the future.