Evidence of meeting #29 for Official Languages in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was organizations.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Danielle Bélisle
Francis Potié  Executive Director, Association de la presse francophone
Pierre Bélanger  Chairman of the Board, Alliance de la francophonie de Timmins
Réjean Grenier  Publisher and Editorial Writer, Journal Le Voyageur
Sylvain Lacroix  Executive Director, Alliance de la francophonie de Timmins

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Guy Lauzon

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I would like to welcome our witnesses who are here in person and on the telephone, as well as all committee members. We have technical difficulties this morning, but I think they will be cleared up.

We will proceed as follows: our witnesses will have five minutes each to give their presentations, and committee members will then ask their questions.

We will begin with Mr. Potié. Mr. Potié represents the Association de la presse francophone.

Sir, you have approximately five minutes to give your presentation.

9:15 a.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Danielle Bélisle

We can tell our two or three other witnesses that we will hear from them afterwards. I am told that they can hear us.

9:15 a.m.

A witness

Yes, we hear you.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Guy Lauzon

Thank you and welcome.

9:15 a.m.

Francis Potié Executive Director, Association de la presse francophone

I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to talk to you about the concerns of the Association de la presse francophone, as well as its views on the vitality of communities and the Action Plan for Official Languages.

The Association de la presse francophone is made up of weekly and by-monthly francophone newspapers in minority situations from across Canada, with the exception of Quebec, obviously.

Our mandate is to promote the francophone print media across Canada, defend its interests and ensure its development.

I will begin by talking to you about our position on the vitality of communities. Francophone newspapers are an indicator of that vitality. When there is not a single francophone newspaper in a given region, that is not a sign of community vitality, but when an area has a number of francophone newspapers, that is a good indicator of the community's francophone and economic vitality.

Newspapers are also a source of vitality for those communities. Communities without newspapers have a much harder time ensuring social cohesion and carrying out development projects, whether they be social, economic, political or educational, if there are no other adequate means of communication. We also benefit. Evidently, a community whose population is decreasing or whose economy is in trouble will have difficulty supporting a newspaper or radio station. The media need community support.

With regard to the action plan, I can tell you that the addition of measures in the areas of health, justice, immigration and literacy has contributed to the vitality of those communities and, by extension, our newspapers. But I cannot quantify the economic spinoffs or the articles that these measures have produced. It is very difficult to assess the exact impact of the action plan on our newspapers.

We have noted, however, that there is almost no mention of communications in the action plan. The entire document contains only one or two very brief references in this respect. We obviously find that to be a major shortcoming, given the role communications play in today's world.

We are talking about communities that have access to a newspaper or radio broadcasting. We live in a world with an enormous number of media outlets. We have to compete and fight assimilation. The fact that people can watch 70, 100 or even 200 English-language television stations, and have access to over 100 English magazines at the convenience store amounts to major competition for us. Among other things, it is very difficult to provide our young people with content that will interest them and stimulate them enough to continue living in French. We believe that the action plan comes up short in this respect.

Another shortcoming of the plan is that people were not consulted prior to its drafting. I attend meetings where organizations assess the plan. It is very difficult for me to know what has been done with regard to the plan.

The francophone public has no idea of the development efforts made in their community. There might have been some concern about not properly spending funds, but no communications were established with the public. The money would not necessarily have been wasted. I am talking about ordinary people who are not part of an organization that discusses these matters on a daily basis.

Our organization is part of the family of francophone organizations. Like the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne, we believe that the allocation of funds to national and provincial francophone organizations does not take into account inflation and the increasing number of issues we have to work on.

To respond in an effective and realistic fashion, we need more substantial funding, not on a project basis, but to support the basic infrastructure in the various community sectors. The number of sectors has increased, but we still only have two or three people working on all the standing committees, etc. At a certain point, we will no longer be able to keep up.

I will talk about specific measures that we could take to assist the francophone press and the overall communications sector. We are currently concerned about the fact that Canada Post is withdrawing its financial contribution from the Publications Assistance Program. That amounts to a 25 % loss in mail delivery assistance. We have yet to determine the consequences of that withdrawal for our newspapers, but that is something we are concerned about.

There is also a series of publishing support programs in the Canada Magazine Fund. For all intents and purposes, there is little or no French-language magazine industry outside Quebec. In order to respect the Official Languages Act and the amendment that was adopted making Part VII enforceable, the fund needs to be adapted to the reality of our communities and the print media we can develop has to be supported, rather than requiring that unrealistic criteria be met, such as publishing a given number of copies of a glossy magazine.

Staff training and retention and the management of advertising are two other concerns we have. The level of federal government advertising is not what it was prior to the advertising moratorium. Things have improved, but the level is still far below what it used to be.

Thank you for your attention.

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Guy Lauzon

Thank you very much, Mr. Potié.

We will now move on to our second witness, Pierre Bélanger, Chairman of the Board of the Alliance de la francophonie de Timmins.

Mr. Bélanger, you have approximately five minutes.

9:20 a.m.

Pierre Bélanger Chairman of the Board, Alliance de la francophonie de Timmins

Good morning. I hope the fact that we are talking over the phone and not able to see one another is not a bad sign for the future of Franco-Ontarian community organizations. I hope that I am not speaking to you from beyond the grave, because we learned yesterday that the Superior North regional ACFO, in Sault Ste. Marie, closed its doors owing to a lack of funding.

Community organizations are in crisis, that is obvious. I will talk especially about the ACFOs and the Alliance de la francophonie de Timmins, given that we have changed our name and our make up to better reflect our community and better ensure our survival and effectiveness.

There is no doubt that we are in crisis, and that crisis is essentially of a financial nature. Mr. Potié alluded earlier to the lack of funding for francophone and Acadian organizations. That is a fact.

The other problem is that many more organizations are receiving funding. Grassroots organizations, those that work in the communities, saw their funding decrease in the 1990s. Evidently, their funding did not keep up with inflation, so much so that the Alliance de la francophonie de Timmins, which serves 19,000 francophones in Timmins alone, cannot even hire full-time staff: neither a secretary, nor a director general, nor a development officer. We have part-time staff and volunteers. This is volunteer work that I have already termed, on Radio-Canada, extreme volunteer work, because people have to work in the evenings and on weekends; it is extremely difficult.

I would like to briefly remind you of the importance of local organizations, grassroots organizations like the Alliance de la francophonie, the Kirkland Lake ACFO, Cochrane-Iroquois Falls ACFO, Temiskaming Shores ACFO, etc. It is thanks to the work done by such organizations that we were able to obtain French-language high schools in the 1960s, community health centres, francophone day care centres, literacy centres and, in some communities, cultural centres.

In Timmins, we fought to have a newspaper and now we have francophone newspapers. We also fought to have French-language colleges. I do not have to tell you how important the ACFOs and other such organizations are in developing communities and ensuring the vitality of francophone minority communities in Ontario.

The crisis is due to a lack of means, especially financial, which provide us with the administrative support to carry out our work. You know that we experienced enormous budget cutbacks in the 1990s. For example, our budget in 1985 was $50,000; it bottomed out at $31,000 in 1997-98.

In 2006, we received a mind-boggling $37,600, to be exact. Obviously, that does not take into account inflation, because if we used the Bank of Canada's inflation calculator, $50,000, in 1985, would come out to $86,000, in 2006.

Such a level of funding would allow us to have at least two full-time staff members. We would have the means to do our work and develop priority issues. For example, Timmins needs a community health centre. We have been working on this for years, but we always come up against new governments and changing political priorities. Timmins, with its 19,000 francophones, does not have a community health centre. I do not have to explain to you the problems we have recruiting francophone doctors. That is a priority issue.

The Alliance de la francophonie de Timmins developed the francophone component of the city's strategic plan. We are fighting to obtain a new campus at the Collège Boréal, which would be a trade school serving the entire region from Hearst to New Liskeard, where Timmins is the natural socio-economic development centre. That is another of our priorities.

Realistically, we would need $86,000. Last week we asked the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage for realistic funding of approximately $60,000, with a new funding formula.

If the money does not go directly to grassroots organizations fighting to provide quality services to the francophone population, fighting against the assimilation of our communities and working together with other organizations, of which the Association de la presse francophone is obviously a very important agency, we will not have the means to do our work and we will simply have to close our doors. Currently, we are at the end of our rope.

For over 10 years now we have been working in close collaboration with the community to get the money to compensate for this lack of funding. We are working extremely hard to develop projects, and to be able to pay for more or less full-time staff to run our organizations.

We are at the end of our rope now. The communities are no longer what they were. There have been significant economic changes. Quite often, francophone entrepreneurs have sold their companies to American anglophone multinational companies. These people do not have the same sensitivity with regard to the community. It is difficult to get them to help us. So this is an avenue that we have explored but that has not provided the hoped-for results. This cannot compensate for the lack of federal funding.

Obviously, we are in the midst of a crisis. The Cochrane-Iroquois Falls ACFO is experiencing a financial crisis because it received a huge envelope of $18,000 last year. The Kirkland Lake ACFO and the Rive-Nord ACFO, in Elliot Lake, are experiencing the same problem. There has been a major crisis for 10 years now, but things have come to a head. If we are unable to obtain better funding to allow us to operate, we will have to close our doors.

The challenges are enormous because the forestry industry is experiencing a very arduous crisis that is affecting our communities. There is a crisis with regard to access to American markets, and restructuring is underway. This is not helping us in our attempt to obtain funding so we can do our job. We could play an important role in helping to resolve this crisis, but we lack the means to do our job adequately because we do not have full-time staff.

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Guy Lauzon

Mr. Bélanger, do you have any final comments?

9:30 a.m.

Chairman of the Board, Alliance de la francophonie de Timmins

Pierre Bélanger

O.K.

In conclusion it is essential that we find a solution to increase the provincial envelope so that local organizations, grassroots organizations which have their ear to the ground, are well integrated, know the needs and work with the bone and sinew of their communities, can have stable funding that will allow them to operate appropriately and with structure.

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Guy Lauzon

Thank you very much. Please stay on the line.

We will give five minutes to Mr. Grenier, from Le Voyageur newspaper in Sudbury, for his presentation.

Mr. Grenier.

November 28th, 2006 / 9:30 a.m.

Réjean Grenier Publisher and Editorial Writer, Journal Le Voyageur

Yes.

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Guy Lauzon

You may begin.

9:30 a.m.

Réjean Grenier Publisher and Editorial Writer, Journal Le Voyageur

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Honourable members, thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak with you.

I will speak quickly and honestly. I am known, in Sudbury, for being a straight shooter and—

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Guy Lauzon

Mr. Grenier, if you could wait one moment; we cannot hear you very well. We are going to adjust the volume.

Let's try again.

9:30 a.m.

Publisher and Editorial Writer, Journal Le Voyageur

Réjean Grenier

I changed phones, perhaps that will help a little.

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Guy Lauzon

That is much better.

9:30 a.m.

Publisher and Editorial Writer, Journal Le Voyageur

Réjean Grenier

I am known here for not mincing words. Right off the bat, I want to tell you something fundamental: I firmly believe that Canadian unity can only be achieved by having dynamic and healthy French-Canadian communities. You can adopt all the motions you want on the Quebec nation, but as long as communities outside Quebec are dying, Quebeckers, who are not stupid, will know that Canada is not their country. So, it's clear that communities outside Quebec are the key to national unity.

This morning, I want to talk to you about the vitality of francophone communities, in terms of the action plan commonly known as the Dion plan. I also want to talk about communications.

I have worked in media for over 30 years, and I faithfully cover the entire issue of francophone communities. I know the leaders and the communities, I have followed the epic battle for schools and all sorts of things.

I want to say that the federal government made itself responsible for this community. That responsibility is recognized in the Constitution, in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Official Languages Act. Obviously, the federal government has not taken this seriously. I also think it's clear that the Dion plan has not had any impact on communities.

One of the most devastating things that we have noted, particularly in the past seven or eight years, since the first HRDC scandal, the former Service Canada, and since the sponsorship scandal, is that the government machinery has become paranoid, which means government subsidies are now almost inaccessible and as ineffective. Projects are being subsidized, but no one is being paid to administer them properly. People are being given projects, they are told that they have so much money to implement a project but they're not paid for rent or phone services. Finally, not much is being paid and these people have to obtain results. We are then asked to analyze the results of all kinds of things.

This is much more difficult to implement. Programs specifically for minority organizations are often organized for the majority. I'd like to give an example. There are programs for young interns, with all kinds of criteria, but these criteria are directed at the majority and are easy to meet. For example, in my community, I have to hire francophone graduates, but there are substantially fewer francophone graduates than anglophone graduates. So, right from the start, my choice is more limited.

Second, if I want to hire a graphic artist, the fact that there is no graphic artist course offered in French in Sudbury is not taken into consideration. However, according to the criteria, I cannot hire someone from outside the region; I must hire someone from Sudbury. This situation is not working for francophones outside Quebec. This works for the majority because courses in Sudbury are in English. They have the choice, but I don't. However, there would be an easy way to resolve such situations.

Recent decisions by the Supreme Court of Canada—I am thinking in particular of the Summerside ruling—give clear guidelines with regard to the treatment of official language minorities. Justice Bastarache explained at length in the decision that equal treatment does not mean the application of the same criteria. He even added that, often, in order to resolve an unfair situation, more had to be given or given differently in order to achieve equality. This seems clear to me but it doesn't seem clear to the people developing such programs within the government.

Public servants tend to generalize and to try to ensure that everything is equal for everyone. Yet, legislation and these decisions allow for different treatment. We must remember that official language minorities have a very long road to travel.

So, the Dion plan has had no impact on francophone communities in Canada, first because it was countered by this immobility within government, by this decision to treat everything equally, which penalizes francophone communities. Another flaw with the Dion plan—I think that Mr. Potié alluded to this earlier—is the communications sector but this is not being talked about. We are talking about health and education, justice, immigration, which are all provincial responsibilities, it should be noted, which means that money is being given to the provinces, that spend it the way they want.

In some cases, such as in Ontario, the money was used for education, for French programs within the school boards. So much the better. In other sectors, I have no idea what happened. Mr. Potié referred to that too. Nowhere does the Dion plan indicate for whom this plan was developed and what is being done with the money. Some $750 million are being spent but people are not being told how that money will be spent. Yet, I don't think that anything needs to be hidden.

I'd also like to talk to you about communications and I would remind you that, in 2004, Mr. Potié from the Association de la presse francophone made a presentation on the slow but programmed death of a number of publications. For example, two years ago, I purchased the only business magazine published outside Quebec, Le lien économique. When I purchased this publication, I did my homework. Mr. D'Amours, if he is still here, will certainly understand that the BDC would not provide funding for the purchase without first being provided a business plan. The plan was based on figures I had obtained from the company I was purchasing. So the business plan highlighted various contributions from the federal government, which constituted a certain quantity of advertising. It wasn't huge, but it was something. Since I purchased the magazine in 2004, the federal government has purchased only 1 advertisement in 15 issues. I move a hair, and the magazine will probably close forever. This is the only such magazine outside Quebec.

The other problem concerns the Publications Assistance Program, which Mr. Potié talked about. As I own two publications, Canada Post's withdrawal of its 25% share in this program means a net loss of over $40,000 for me. Le voyageur, and Le lien économique have never had profits of more than $40,000. So we have one of two choices: we stop publication or we increase our prices.

Our community will absorb the price increases up to a certain point, but there comes a time when this no longer is an option. Yet, this is a publication that, within eight years, has increased the number of subscribers by 650%. So this means that there is interest. We started with 2005 households and we are now at 15,000 households. So the demand is there. The world wants it. We will be unable to keep it alive if programs such as the Publications Assistance Program are cut.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Guy Lauzon

Mr. Grenier, may I ask you to conclude your presentation?

9:40 a.m.

Publisher and Editorial Writer, Journal Le Voyageur

Réjean Grenier

In conclusion, I want to say that, in 2002-2003, the Publications Assistance Program gave $10 million to Rogers Communications; $9 million to Transcontinental; and $2.5 million to Quebecor. It gave much less than $1 million to all francophone publications outside Quebec; we are talking here about 26 publications. This doesn't make sense to me.

I want to reiterate what the APF told you two and a half years ago: a number of publications outside Quebec are now dying a slow but programmed death. Over the past two years, things have only gotten worse. I wonder when things will change.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Guy Lauzon

Thank you, Mr. Grenier.

We are going to start with questions. I would ask to members to identify the witness to whom they are putting their question.

Mr. D'Amours.

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank Mr. Potié and Mr. Bélanger for coming. Thank you, Mr. Grenier, for being with us by telephone.

9:45 a.m.

The Clerk

I think that Mr. Lacroix is here too. He did not say anything, but he is there.

9:45 a.m.

Liberal

Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

So, thank you to all those who are joining us long distance.

My question is for two of the witnesses: Mr. Potié and Mr. Grenier.

Mr. Grenier, when we were in Sudbury, we had the opportunity to discuss the situation and the problem regarding the Publications Assistance Program since Canada Post decided to stop providing its share of funding.

You explained earlier the impact that this could have. I understand that you are fully abreast of the situation. Just because a company is making a profit does not mean that it automatically has money left over, because it has to repay the capital on its loans. Ultimately, the impact of the Canada Post decision on official languages communities could be enormous, as you said earlier.

That said, I would like you to tell us more about the risks that could occur. You said earlier that Le Voyageur now has 15,000 subscribers but in the short and intermediate term, meaning within the next few months to a year, what would be the real impact on your publication?

Mr. Potié, from the Association de la presse francophone or the APF, could you talk to us about what this could mean on a national scale for newspapers in official language minority communities. We are really talking about small newspapers publishing fewer than 50,000 or 35,000 issues a week.

9:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Guy Lauzon

Mr. Grenier.

9:45 a.m.

Publisher and Editorial Writer, Journal Le Voyageur

Réjean Grenier

Thank you.

The first thing I must say is that there will be a different impact on the magazine I publish, because our situation is extremely precarious and our commercial advertising base is much smaller because, as I told you, the federal government is no longer advertising with us. Furthermore, this magazine has a much smaller subscriber base—the business world outside Quebec—and cannot appeal to Microsoft, for example, which does not advertise in a magazine that distributes fewer than 100,000 issues. So, right from the start, this really threatens the future of the only business magazine, which, in passing, is printed on glazed paper and looks very nice. We hear a lot of positive comments about it.

As for the newspaper, we already announced that we would be increasing the subscription price. We have also increased our advertising prices. We hope that the community will be able to absorb this increase. In a year, I can give you a much better answer, but at present I am going to transfer the shortfall to my community; I have no other choice.

Second, of course, we are devising several other advertising projects through which we may be able to collect several thousand dollars in profits here and there on various projects that could make up at least in part for the loss of this $40,000. As I told you, Le Voyageur has never had a $40,000 profit. So it is clear that if we don't want to run a deficit and if we want to pay back our debts, as you say, we'll have to find other means.

However, I think it would be even simpler if the federal government were to compensate this 25% cut in its Publications Assistance Program.

The other possibility would be to tell Canada Post that, although we understand why it is making that action and does not want to give any more money to Rogers Communications, which has more money than the former does, it must still take into consideration the impact of this decision on francophone communities and respect Bill S-3 and the Official Languages Act—