Evidence of meeting #33 for Official Languages in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was we've.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Charles Gagné  President, Conseil communauté en santé du Manitoba
Sylviane Lanthier  Director and Editor in Chief, La Liberté
Louise Aucoin  President, Federation of Associations of French-speaking Jurists of Common Law
Michel Tétreault  President and CEO, St-Boniface General Hospital
Léo Robert  Director General, Conseil communauté en santé du Manitoba
Rénald Rémillard  Executive Director, Federation of Associations of French-speaking Jurists of Common Law
Daniel Boucher  President and Executive Director, Société franco-manitobaine
Ibrahima Diallo  Vice-President, Administrative council, Société franco-manitobaine

8:30 p.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Yvon Godin

I'd like to welcome the Société franco-manitobaine and its representatives, Daniel Boucher and Mr. Diallo. I won't try to pronounce your name.

You'll have five minutes to make your presentation, and then we'll ask you some questions. The meeting will end at 9:00 p.m. As I said at the outset, the committee apologizes for changing the timetable. We thank you for being so flexible. As you know, we go back to Ottawa tomorrow for a special vote that will be held at 3:00 p.m., an important vote for the Canadian nation. With that, I turn the floor over to Mr. Boucher.

8:30 p.m.

Daniel Boucher President and Executive Director, Société franco-manitobaine

Thank you, Mr. Godin. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen members. It is a great pleasure for us to be here this evening. We are in a bit of a hurry, and we'll try to improvise here. That's natural for us because we do it often.

I'm sure that the speakers who preceded us presented the community and its issues, which are very important. Our organization, the Société franco-manitobaine, is one of its voices. I'm here this evening with the chair of the board of directors, Mr. Ibrahima Diallo, who was elected approximately a month ago. He's recently taken up the position, but he will definitely be able to answer your questions, if you have any.

I was to be here with Ms. Bintou Sacko, who is responsible for the community intake service. I could talk for five hours, but I only have five minutes. So I'll talk about Francophone immigration to Manitoba, which is a major success thanks to a strategy called Agrandir l'espace francophone. In 2001, we adopted that strategy, which targeted five different clienteles, in particular the immigrant community. It's designed to increase the number of Francophone immigrants to Manitoba. Last year, Manitoba took in slightly more than 300 Francophone immigrants. That's a lot, if you compare that figure to the number we took in four or five years ago, and we intend to go even further.

Our goal is a minimum of 700 immigrants a year, and I believe we're going to achieve that objective at some point. We've set ourselves the following objective: an average of 700 immigrants a year for the next 20 years. At first, it will be a bit slow, but I believe we'll be exceeding that number in a few years. The community is very well organized to take in increasing numbers of Francophone immigrants. We're also working with the province of Manitoba, which is a world leader in immigration. This year, the province aims to take in 10,000 immigrants. That figure has nearly been achieved, and, in the last Throne Speech, a new objective was set, that of taking in 20,000 persons by 2011. We want to maintain the same percentage of Francophones and ensure that there are Francophones immigrating to Manitoba. We are a welcoming land and we're proud of what we're doing.

It's not easy in a number of respects, and we need the federal government to be one of our partners in our initiative, Agrandir l'espace francophone. We need the federal government. It has to be a partner of the province so that we have the necessary resources to recruit people and ensure they stay here. We know very well that a community such as ours is well positioned to retain them because it's very welcoming. On the other hand, we know that people's first impression is very important. When people arrive here from another country, whether it be in Africa, the countries of the Maghreb, France, Belgium or any Francophone country, the first impression, the first week, the first two weeks are the ones that count the most. We don't want to lose those people because we aren't well structured. We feel we have the outline of a very good structure, but we still have a lot of work to do and we need the support of Citizenship and Immigration Canada, and we obviously still need the support of the Province of Manitoba.

This is a priority issue for us. We want the federal government to understand us on this subject because it's important for us to preserve linguistic duality. We need significant figures in our provinces. For us, immigration is one of the means at our disposal, and it's obviously one of the strategies we have adopted. We wanted to focus on that this evening, but our strategy Agrandir l'espace francophone is much broader and concerns all kinds of clienteles. Francophone immigration is a priority for us, and we hope that you'll pass the message on to the Government of Canada that it must give us the necessary resources to ensure that linguistic duality contributes to vitality and development across Canada. Our community has been here for a long time and doesn't intend to go elsewhere. We'll be here for a long time.

Thank you very much.

8:35 p.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Yvon Godin

Thank you, Mr. Boucher. I appreciate what you say. We Acadians have been here for 402 years. Quebec will only be celebrating in two years. I say that for anyone who wants to hear it.

Mr. Boucher, I thought you said that you needed federal government support. A little earlier, Mr. Robert said he was fed up with being seen as a beggar, that that was a false image, and that, in his view, Francophones should be recognized for what they are.

Perhaps we don't read section 43 of the Official Languages Act enough or remind the government of it often enough. That section states: 43. (1) The Minister of Canadian Heritage shall take such measures as that Minister considers appropriate to advance the quality of status and use of English and French in Canadian society and... may take measures to

That means a lot of things. I don't want to read it in full, but simply to state a brief reminder. It also states: (a) enhance the vitality of the English and French linguistic minority communities in Canada and support and assist their development;

We shouldn't have to feel like beggars: an act states what the government must do. However, I agree with you, Mr. Robert: we get tired of constantly requesting.

It also states: (b) encourage and support the learning of English and French in Canada;(c) foster and acceptance and appreciation of both English and French by members of the public;

I think that's consistent with Ms. Lanthier's remarks. She mentioned that the newspaper La Liberté is doing the government's job, which doesn't prevent the government from implementing $25,000 in cuts. You're experiencing these cuts as a result of the sponsorship scandal. It's the minority sectors such as newspapers and community radio that are the subject of these cuts.

This isn't a statement; it's an act. It's no longer Bill S-3: we now have an act. What would you like to suggest to the government through the Standing Committee on Official Languages, which has a mandate to report to Parliament and to act as a watchdog? Mr. Simard has been on the Standing Committee on Official Languages with me for some time. We are the guardians of the Official Languages Act. We report directly to Parliament on the concerns of the communities.

8:40 p.m.

President and Executive Director, Société franco-manitobaine

Daniel Boucher

You really want to attack a question of this kind?

8:40 p.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Yvon Godin

You have two minutes, Mr. Boucher.

8:40 p.m.

President and Executive Director, Société franco-manitobaine

Daniel Boucher

I'm going to start answering, and my chair can continue, if he wishes.

Every time we've been asked to prove ourselves and to be supported, we've succeeded. What we want are conditions and resources that will enable us to prove ourselves. We're not asking anyone to do the work for us or to give us any kind of favour. We're seeking the resources that will enable us to enforce the act and to achieve the vitality of our communities. The vitality of our communities is being done by the communities. If it's to be done this way, the communities must have the necessary tools.

8:40 p.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Yvon Godin

Yes, but that involves amounts of money. Pardon me for speaking so bluntly, but it's not acceptable for you to have French-language schools that you've won through court challenges or for you to buy schools that others have closed in order to build better ones. Parents wonder where they'll send their children. I don't think you're being supported in that case.

8:40 p.m.

President and Executive Director, Société franco-manitobaine

Daniel Boucher

You're absolutely right. Terrible things have happened.

Our job is, first, to ensure that those kinds of things don't reoccur and, second, to be a partner in success and a partner when it comes to finding solutions.

We're not asking the government to do our job. We'll do it because we're near the community. We're asking the government to support us so that we can make sure we no longer suffer these injustices or problems like the ones you just pointed out, because we're regressing at that point. But our communities can't afford to regress.

The government must understand that we can't regress one inch. That's a problem for communities like ours.

Give us the opportunity to advance and we'll advance, but certain actions, sometimes taken by governments, force us backward. When we regress, we need time to come back and we lose what we've acquired. When we lose what we've acquired, it's a major loss for the community, and we often can't get it back. It's lost forever.

We're requesting support for what we have, that we be assisted in growing and developing, and that we be provided with the tools to continue. That's what we're asking for.

8:40 p.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Yvon Godin

Thank you, Mr. Boucher.

Now it's Mr. Murphy's turn.

8:40 p.m.

Liberal

Brian Murphy Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

I'll pass my turn to Mr. Simard.

8:40 p.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Yvon Godin

Mr. Simard.

8:40 p.m.

Liberal

Raymond Simard Liberal Saint Boniface, MB

I want to thank my colleague Mr. Murphy.

Mr. Boucher, thank you for being here. I know you had your first monthly meeting after the annual meeting.

You obviously decided that immigration was one of the ways to avoid regressing. If we don't want to regress, we have to invite people here, to expand the Francophone space, as you said.

I remember that $9 million was provided under the plan for the immigration program. That's not a lot. I remember that there was a lot of money for government staff, and I think there remains $60,000 per province per year. That's not a lot.

Are you actively recruiting, first of all? Second, you mentioned programs with the province. Does the province consult you to determine who you want to bring in, for example, and from what countries?

8:40 p.m.

President and Executive Director, Société franco-manitobaine

Daniel Boucher

There is a provincial program, and we're making strategic choices for the province. We're facilitating Francophone immigration. I can't say we're being consulted, but, in the cases we've handled, the province has helped us bring in immigrants to Canada as quickly as possible. The government has reduced waiting times. In Manitoba, the waiting period is three to six months, which is absolutely impossible in other provinces: it's not feasible. That's one of the things that we're doing with the province for immigrants. Our partnership with the province is mainly in this area, and we're working in very close cooperation with its representatives in that regard.

8:45 p.m.

Liberal

Raymond Simard Liberal Saint Boniface, MB

Earlier it was said that there was really no one in the government actively promoting the two official languages, bilingualism. We're a bilingual country, but we don't talk about that a lot.

This may be a fairly difficult question, but I'd like to know whether you think that the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages could play a more proactive role in this regard. It seems to me it already has a structure in place and staff in all the provinces. I suppose that the role it plays depends on the mandate the Prime Minister gives it. It seems to me that the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages has people in place who could play this proactive role. What do you think about that?

8:45 p.m.

President and Executive Director, Société franco-manitobaine

Daniel Boucher

I think the current mandate is a bit limiting. It's not easy to do it. However, we have always felt that the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages was an extremely important tool in promoting linguistic duality. The present Commissioner, like his predecessors, is someone who brings people together, a person who can make everyone understand the realities of the various communities. He's in a perfect position to do that.

We believe he should play a greater role in this regard. The Commissioner's watchdog role is important, but we feel that his mandate isn't limited to that. It's important to promote linguistic duality across Canada, and I think the Office of the Commissioner is in a very good position to do that.

8:45 p.m.

Liberal

Raymond Simard Liberal Saint Boniface, MB

What are you doing to prepare for the succession or Francophone leadership? We hear about that virtually everywhere. We always see the same people at the table, exhausted people who wear two or three hats. What are you doing here in Manitoba to prepare for the Francophone succession?

8:45 p.m.

President and Executive Director, Société franco-manitobaine

Daniel Boucher

A number of young people have gotten involved in the Société franco-manitobaine, and in all the organizations, moreover. That's good news: young people are getting more involved. We encourage young people by, for example, appointing them to boards of directors that are considered adult boards of directors. These people are adults, but they say they're young. So we appoint them to boards of directors made up of people who have more experience, and they can thus acquire experience. We also try to work with them to ensure that a certain amount of leadership is passed on.

I also think that youth have a lot of things to teach us. That does us good.

8:45 p.m.

Liberal

Raymond Simard Liberal Saint Boniface, MB

Thank you very much.

8:45 p.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Yvon Godin

You have one minute left.

8:45 p.m.

Liberal

Raymond Simard Liberal Saint Boniface, MB

Rénald, does the funding allocated to the administration of justice include funds for lawyer training? We talked about possible trials at Saint-Pierre-Jolys and in bilingual service centres. If we create an active offer, will there be funding for training or not? If we create a need, Francophone judges will be necessary. However, it's always been said that it is difficult to have Francophone judges appointed.

8:45 p.m.

Executive Director, Federation of Associations of French-speaking Jurists of Common Law

Rénald Rémillard

The various organizations may put forward training projects, but there's no dedicated training budget. I don't know of a lot of training projects, except for legal training in French.

8:45 p.m.

Liberal

Raymond Simard Liberal Saint Boniface, MB

If we reinvested in justice, where should the funding be allocated?

8:45 p.m.

Executive Director, Federation of Associations of French-speaking Jurists of Common Law

Rénald Rémillard

Awareness and tools have been identified as priorities because, in concrete terms, jurists who want to work in French need tools, models, interpretation services and so on. All these tools are very important.

Obviously, the justice sector is a bit similar to the health sector in that there are a lot of stakeholders and various departments of justice. It's important that the governments and stakeholders—legal aid, for example— make their contribution. This is a sector where awareness plays a major role because it encourages all stakeholders to play their role in the administration of justice. There is also the matter of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, which, as we know, plays a key role across the country. We're observing distinctly greater awareness on this point.

8:50 p.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Yvon Godin

Thank you.

Mr. Blaney, over to you.

8:50 p.m.

Conservative

Steven Blaney Conservative Lévis—Bellechasse, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Mr. Diallo. Thank you for being here as well, Mr. Boucher.

I'd like to give you the opportunity to speak by asking you a fairly open question, since we're coming to the end of the tour. I'd like to know how you view the Franco-Manitoban community today and how you see it in 20 years. If you have any comments to pass on to us, I'd like to know them.