Official Languages Committee on Dec. 12th, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you, Ms. Beaulieu and Ms. Boucher. The five minutes are up.

Ms. Brunelle, you can ask the next question.

[Paule Brunelle, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I must say that I admire your determination and courage. It seems to me that when there is an action plan and an accountability framework, and after some heated battles over the years, in which some schools were lost, it is certainly discouraging to find yourself not even back where you started, but behind the start line by a fair distance.

I would like to say a word about families. My colleague said not long ago that learning French was something that had to happen in the families. One musn't forget what the typical family is like today. It is often a broken family, a blended family or one in which both parents work. Most women are no longer at home raising children and able to teach their children a language.

You said that you wanted to build community spaces. I find that brilliant. In Quebec, the opposite was done. Schools were built at great expense, along with community centres for recreation and culture. This later become too much of a financial burden for the communities. Then, there was a baby boom, of which I am a part. So this happened a fairly long time ago. After that, there were fewer children, and some schools had to be closed. When the last school in the village was closed, it was tragic because you could see the communities disintegrating. The link I would like to make is that wherever there is a common community space, it is possible to develop all aspects of the language, and I tip my hat to this initiative.

Ms. Beaulieu, you told us that we were not providing enough support to community life. I think that this will be something to consider in the action plan. Community life needs to be supported so that the language can develop horizontally in all sectors.

I do not really have a question to ask at this time. Those were comments.

If you wish, we could speak about some of the more important aspects of the action plan or of things that we might be able to develop. It seems to me that the committee members would be interested in hearing comments about some of the urgent things that need to be done. We know that there is the reinstatement of the funding, respect for the accountability framework and the action plan, but is there something else that this committee could do to help you?

[Marielle Beaulieu]

Ms. Brunelle, I believe you have touched upon some essential elements. The strengthening of community life and the community's capacity at this point to live more effectively in French are extremely important basic factors.

I think that in the past, there was perhaps a misunderstanding about all the work done by the many organizations dedicated to the development of French-language communities and to the spread of French in every form. We were told many times that there were many, and that there was some complexity.

It is important to understand that in a minority community, life is not the same as when you are part of the majority. Hence the extreme importance of spaces and infrastructures. This capacity needs to be strengthened so that there can indeed be these services and so that people in a community know where to go. I would say even more than that. I would say that there is still an enormous amount of catching up to do. We need only think of those families—Mr. Cousineau mentioned this earlier—in which it was no longer considered useful to speak French because people spoke English at work. In some families French has been lost for generations.

If it is not possible to actively offer services in French and to promote these services, people will get out of the habit of requesting them. Hence the importance of capacity building, because what is involved is not only offering the services, but being able to talk about them, promote them, and in other words, being able to do more.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you, Ms. Beaulieu.

Mr. Godin, you can ask the next question.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Another group was also affected, and I think that it is an important group. When we talk about communities, there are people who work on a volunteer basis to help francophones. Whether in French or in English, in Sherbrooke in the province of Quebec, where anglophones are a minority, it is the same thing.

In my riding, I met a man who was a director of volunteer services.

According to one study, in New Brunswick only, volunteer work amounts to 15,000 unpaid jobs. Does the government really understand what it is in the process of doing? This network of volunteers receives an annual grant of $140,000. I am not saying that it was this amount alone that was supporting the whole project. The federal government granted $140,000 to New Brunswick—I do not know how much it gave to Quebec—to help one volunteer organization doing work equivalent to 15,000 jobs. If these 15,000 people were to tell themselves that there was nothing left for them to do in society, that they had done their work and would rather go home and sit in front of the television set, what then? I feel that this is one of the most mean-minded of the government's cuts.

Of course it took 10 years to convince the previous government to come up with an action plan, which came into effect in 2003, and which still has some flaws. Today, we have taken a step backward. Usually, there is only one speed when you are driving in reverse, but in this case, there are 10. It is not enough to be working on an action plan with a view to improving it, when we find ourselves with less than nothing. I know that it is frustrating for the government. I understand it. I would not like to be in their place.

It seems to me that your group came here without making any specific suggestions. It is true that you spoke about the need for infrastructure. But I would like to have a clear idea of what your position is. Are you telling the government to pause for a moment to consult? You are part of the community, you are in the field, and each of you has a brain, you are close to the community, you pay taxes, and the government is elected to represent you. Are you asking the government to listen to you and to work with us? Is that the message that you would like us to enter in the report? We are going to write a report. What do you want? What do you think are the most important things to include in the report?

[Gaétan Cousineau]

The federation has been working for a year now to prepare literacy upgrading plans. We have plans for each province and territory that include the costs and the needs. We have thus done our work. We have plans. We can present them, explain them and discuss them in order to put infrastructures in place, prepare tools and support the people who will provide these services.

To follow up on what Ms. Beaulieu said a while ago, people want services in French, but people need to be able one day to provide these services in French. Unless we work on literacy for francophones, whether at school or elsewhere, what will happen one day to people like nurses, who will be providing health care services in French, and the answer is that there will no longer be any services in French because there will be no francophones left to deliver them. Things therefore need to begin in early childhood, continued at school, and in adult literacy programs, by keeping parents sufficiently educated to support the family. We have these remedial plans.

At the moment, enrolment is declining in francophone schools because students do not have the capacity to learn on their own in French. They are no longer sufficiently skilled in French to go to French school. Francophone schools could handle more francophones—the pool is there—but they are unable to reach them. There will soon be no one left to provide services in French. We need to support volunteers, and upgrading plans are required. We have them, we are prepared to show them to you and to help you from this standpoint.

[Marielle Beaulieu]

Mr. Godin, to conclude, I think that at the moment, all the sectors have plans, whether for early childhood, education or literacy. You are going to hear from people who are going to tell you that they are ready, that the plans exist. At the FCFA, we presented a plan to Ms. Verner about the issue of strengthening community life, but beyond all of that, what is most important at the moment—and this would be expected of any government—is that we begin by respecting the spirit and the framework of the action plan whose term will end in 2008, that we work with communities so that in the end, the next government strategy will properly reflect needs. Furthermore, you all approved a bill called Bill S-3 to amend the Official Languages Act and to put more teeth into Part VII of the Act, making it binding.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Ms. Beaulieu.

[Marielle Beaulieu]

We expect that the government, no matter which party is in power, will meet its obligations.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you, Ms. Beaulieu. Your time is up.

There will be another round of three-minute questions, and I am going to be very strict about the timing involved because we have a great deal to do.

We will begin with Mr. D'Amours.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

In listening to you speak, it is clear that you are feeling very frustrated and we can see that there is a problem. It's like an old couple or a couple that is not getting along. On the one hand, there is the government and on the other the official language communities. There is a problem within the couple. The official language communities are saying that they are trying to speak to the government but that the government does not want to speak to them. Eventually, a split occurs. Increasingly, the government can be seen to be withdrawing from areas in which it ought to be supporting the official language communities.

Earlier Ms. Gagné-Ouellette, when you spoke about the federal/provincial/territorial Early Childhood Development Agreement, you stated it very clearly. Earlier, I had mentioned the Publications Assistance Program to you, whose budget is being cut. There was discussion of the September 25, and of all the cuts that were being made, but it began well before, when the government decided to back out of the promise to spend $5 billion on day care centres and the guarantee of a percentage of money for francophones, to vary depending on the province. The cuts to the communities did not start yesterday or on September 25. In fact, since it was elected on January 23, the Conservative government, as soon as it had the chance, made cuts to its grants to official language communities. As soon as it had an opportunity to attack the official language communities, it did so stealthily. Every time there are discussions, and in hearing you and when we speak together, it can be seen just how much harm the Conservatives have done to us and since when. Sometimes, it is areas that we did not know about: the question of this federal/provincial/territorial agreement strikes us as something new. It was something new, as it happens. The federal government had an agreement that was designed to guarantee amounts to help the communities within its available financing.

Do you share my feeling that this reality really goes back to the very beginning of the new government? It calls itself new; soon we will be calling it old. The fact remains that since this new government came to office, little by little, very gradually, the official language communities have been losing ground. We now wonder what types of measures will have to be taken to make up for these deficits and even to simply recover what has been lost, let alone talk about moving forward.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

You have 30 seconds to answer the question

[Marielle Beaulieu]

I think that the communities have been playing catch up for ages. Generally speaking, I think that the FCFA and the communities have been in favour of the action plan, which represents a horizontal vision that should be upheld.

Over the past 15 to 20 years, development has been in fits and starts. There have been ups and have been downs. So there has indeed been the feeling in the communities—

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Ms. Beaulieu, unfortunately, your three minutes are up.

Ms. Barbot.

[Vivian Barbot, Bloc, Papineau, QC]

Thank you.

Very quickly, I want to congratulate you, to acknowledge the vitality to which you have contributed. I am gaining a better understanding, through the visits we have made and the people we have met as part of the work of this committee, that living in French outside of Quebec is a constant effort, an ongoing effort. From this standpoint, a country that calls itself bilingual and that has a legal obligation to support the efforts that you have to make should not act in a short-sighted way. There needs to be consistency. I have just said this, but it is not a matter of petty politics to accuse the government of anything. In fact, we in the Bloc Québécois have no immediate interest in this issue, except for the natural ties that bind us to the francophone communities. I believe that we should do everything possible, no matter what government is in power, to ensure that you can obtain that which you are owed to enable you to ensure the vitality of communities outside Quebec.

We have already introduced a motion to this effect. It concerns the government's commitment to support the development of official language communities. We are also asking the Conservatives to increase the funding that was allocated to you, the overall funding, and in particular to provide you with core funding in the long-, medium- and short-term. Indeed, it is clear that the scope of the work you have done cannot be handicapped year after year by administrative or government decisions that threaten the very essence of what you are doing.

I want in particular to assure you that we are very much behind what you are doing and that we will do everything possible to set the situation right.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you, Ms. Barbot.

Mr. Lemieux, you have three minutes.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you.

If we speak too long, there won't be enough time remaining to get an answer.

Here is what I would like to know. The FCFA is working with us, the federal government. However, I would like to know how you work with—

[Marielle Beaulieu]

The provincial governments?

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Yes, the provincial governments. Because we are signing agreements with the provincial governments, for example in education. We announced a billion dollar-agreement. During our travels, I could see that it was very successful. In fact, there has been an increase in the number of francophone schools, students, etc.

How does your association work with the provincial governments?

[Marielle Beaulieu]

Mr. Lemieux, I am very happy that you raised this question. We feel that it is a very important one.

We had been working with the provincial governments in several areas, for quite some time now. The education issue is one of those aspects.

People working in health have been working with the provincial or territorial government. The whole issue of services in French affects us as well, and we are working more and more with the provincial and territorial governments.

Everywhere in Canada, the advocacy associations that have mandates similar to ours, but in their province or territory, have been working closely and increasingly with their provincial or territorial government specifically to improve these communities.

However, in recent years, several governments have developed policies or regulations about French-language services. You are also aware that the federal government has signed an agreement with these governments on services in French.

A federal-provincial-territorial-community connection has been established. My view is that this connection is extremely important.

That said, it must never be forgotten that with respect to the Charter and the Official Languages Act, there are federal obligations. In other words, when we speak of official languages or services in French, it would be dangerous to work strictly with the provinces. In my view, a balance needs to be struck, which is the triangle that has developed over time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you, Ms. Beaulieu and Mr. Lemieux.

The final question will be asked by Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I return to Mr. Lemieux. He was saying earlier that a literacy program had been introduced in Prince Edward Island. I remember, having read it in the newspapers, that this was the only place that benefited. Is this true? The newspapers had said that a literacy program had been introduced or that the program would continue until December 2007.

Then, the Premier of Saskatchewan, among others, got rather angry. He was asking why this province and not any of the others.

Can you tell us whether there is now a Canada-wide agreement?

[Gaétan Cousineau]

I have only been with the federation for a month. It is the people behind me who have all the information. I am currently doing my homework.

I can tell you however that there are many places from which we are awaiting responses. Not very many people received the applications. The great challenge for people—

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Cousineau, you are—

[Gaétan Cousineau]

I am the Director General of the Fédération canadienne pour l'alphabétisation en français.