Evidence of meeting #9 for Official Languages in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was radio-canada.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Sylvain Lafrance  Executive Vice-President, French Services, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
Christiane Leblanc  Executive Director, Espace Musique, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
Louis Lalande  General Manager for the Regions, French Services, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
Jean-Rodrigue Paré  Committee Researcher

10:25 a.m.

General Manager for the Regions, French Services, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

Louis Lalande

First of all, I am making the commitment today, in front of you, to never develop any strategy when I'm sitting alone in my office. I have worked too closely with regional resources within Radio-Canada, and for too long--25 years--to not appreciate and understand the value there. We began our development and strategic efforts last week. Sylvain called a meeting of the French Services Board. This was a gathering of some 180 executives from Radio-Canada, from both radio and television. We devoted an entire session to listening to regional concerns and issues. We gave all our regional managers, who were there together in Montreal, an opportunity to say their piece. Now that this first step has been completed, I feel richer in a number of ways. Later, I will continue that discussion, in each of the regions.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Raymond Simard Liberal Saint Boniface, MB

I would advise you not to consult only Radio-Canada executives, but to also speak to the communities themselves. That way, you will hear a variety of perspectives.

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Guy Lauzon

Thank you for your comments.

Ms. Barbot, you have five minutes.

10:25 a.m.

Bloc

Vivian Barbot Bloc Papineau, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Lafrance, I was reassured to hear you say that you are aware of the reality that is closer to the people. Personally, I spent 30 years living in a small village in Quebec--South Durham. The times I was happiest were the ones where we heard about an accident in the region--in Acton Vale or the surrounding area, for example. It was on the road, near where we lived. It was as though the entire world had suddenly discovered our village. When that happened, we would hear people talking about South Durham.

That may seem puerile, but everybody wants to feel as though Radio-Canada belongs to them. They want not only to exist, but to exist and be seen by others. I understand that that cannot happen every day. In any case, it is perfectly normal for there to be nothing happening in a village. That's perfectly all right, considering that the news is generally bad news. I understand the challenge you're facing. At the same time, we must not forget the effect of the large and densely populated region of Montreal on the rest of Quebec.

What I'm saying is that we mustn't forget about people, but the fact remains that some people are forgotten. Indeed, nobody ever talks about what goes on in the ethnocultural communities, except to talk about street gangs. When school is mentioned, they talk about people dropping out, without ever mentioning individuals. That's probably too bad, but it's all part of the challenge.

Indeed, the situation of francophones outside Quebec is nothing new. We have to satisfy people such as the ones living in my village. At the same time, in terms of content, we have to be sure that people see themselves reflected in what is presented. That is also part of the challenge.

While attempting to ensure that the different regions get what they need, we also have to ensure that die-hard Radio-Canada listeners, such as myself, do not find themselves turning off the radio more often than previously because the program content doesn't interest them. So, we have to find a way of presenting this programming and getting people interested in it.

I wanted to draw your attention to these issues and ask you whether you believe you have the means to achieve what you've been talking about.

10:25 a.m.

Executive Vice-President, French Services, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

Sylvain Lafrance

What a question! I'll start at the beginning.

Three or four years ago, we opened a station in Sherbrooke. There was not one there previously. It's strange to note that even after being around for 60 years, we had no presence whatsoever either in Sherbrooke or Trois-Rivières. That was a rather serious anomaly, but we have corrected it. In fact, it was the same thing in the Abitibi region, where we now have regional programming. In Sherbrooke, Trois-Rivières and Chicoutimi, we have acquired newsrooms that previously belonged to the private sector. We bought them so that news could be carried by Radio-Canada in these areas. That has been done; we have improved things in that regard. As I already said, it's important for people to feel included.

I was saying earlier that this is not an exact science. In radio, when a host is on the air, there can be very delicate situations. Even at times when a host is inclined to say that it's nice outside and that everyone is happy, he has to remember that Canada is a huge country. Indeed, it's quite possible that it's snowing in certain areas. So, we tell our hosts to be careful about what they say. For example, we advise them to say that the weather is nice in Montreal, but that they don't know what it's like elsewhere in Canada. I cite that example simply to show that including people even means being careful about what you say. You have to pay attention to every comma, every comment and at times, even the way you describe certain realities. For example, certain ministries in Quebec don't have the same name as in Alberta. In that respect, we try not to exclude anybody, even though that isn't always easy.

As for knowing whether we have the means to achieve what we've been discussing, I would say that, naturally, the answer is no. The expectations of cultural groups, particularly in the musical arena, and of the regions in relation to the public broadcasters are naturally, and quite legitimately, excessive. Everyone would like us to encourage every orchestra, musical group and musician in the country, and for us to support new artists and new literature in every region of the country--basically, they would like us to have a strong presence everywhere. So, I'd say people's expectations are unlimited.

Given our means, we are able to satisfy a great many needs. In my opinion, what we are accomplishing by way of public service is extremely important. Our role is to listen to what people need, to make decisions and to provide explanations. But we cannot be everything to everyone, given our resources.

Every time I go into the regions, whether it's in Acadia, Manitoba or elsewhere, I meet people to whom I say that it would indeed be preferable for there to be more local programming but that, like everybody else, we have certain constraints. As far as I'm concerned, people realize that no organization can claim to have unlimited means. If I were with Telefilm Canada, my answer would be the same: I would say that at the present time, we don't have the necessary resources.

But if we work hard to listen, make decisions and explain what we're about, Canadians will understand the role we are trying to play and the kind of balance we are aiming for. We manage that balance in the musical field. Whether it's classical music, jazz, song or contemporary music, everyone would like us to be there. Should we be primarily encouraging the large orchestras or the small ensembles? Should we be supporting regional festivals? Should our primary mission be to encourage the MSO or the Contemporary Music Festival in Victoriaville? Seeking the right balance is never easy. With the resources available to us, we manage to achieve a decent balance which is nevertheless imperfect. We have to continue to listen to people and make improvements.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Guy Lauzon

Your time is up.

Mr. Lemieux, please.

June 22nd, 2006 / 10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Thank you very much.

I have similar concerns. I am the Member of Parliament for Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, a riding located close to Ottawa and Quebec. Of a population of 100,000, 65,000 people are Franco-Ontarian, which corresponds to 65 per cent of the total population. In Eastern Ontario, there is a large francophone population. My concern has to do with regional services. I would like to see you concentrate on regional issues. Radio waves are mobile, and that's the reason for the question I'd like to put to you now.

Can you explain how you deal with the regional challenge of a broadcast out of Quebec into my riding? How do you go about ensuring that Radio-Canada takes into account the concerns of people in Eastern Ontario?

10:30 a.m.

Executive Vice-President, French Services, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

Sylvain Lafrance

Let's talk about your riding, one that I know well having lived there myself. The signal from Ottawa covers most of the riding, and the signal from Montreal covers the rest. Radio waves don't always respect riding boundaries. The criteria for determining how they travel are not the same. Sometimes there can be a conflict between two signals.

In this particular case, one of the ways of resolving that conflict has been to considerably increase the signal from Ottawa, as we also have done for Montreal. There must not be many areas of your riding that no longer receive the Ottawa signal. Even in Cornwall, there is a transmitter that casts quite a large net towards the Ottawa River. By increasing our frequencies, we have created areas of overlapping coverage which mean that people in Quebec can now receive a signal from Montreal. The worst problem for some people is that they receive both signals.

And there are regions that are more problematic than the Ottawa region in that respect. Because of their size, some ridings do not always receive the signals they would like to receive.

To cover la Première Chaîne and Espace Musique, and all of Radio-Canada's radio services in English and French, we have more than 300 transmitters located across the country. We are able to calibrate these transmitters so that people receive the signal that they should receive.

The rest of the country obviously poses problems in terms of coverage. Moncton doesn't talk about Caraquet, Montreal doesn't talk about the regions, Ottawa doesn't talk much about Prescott-Russell, and we don't talk much about la Petite-Nation. We need to seek a balance, and that's not easy, although we're aware of the issues.

Our reporters on the ground in Ottawa have set for themselves the goal of casting a much wider net all across the region. Between Quebec and Ontario, there is, once again, a question of balance. The Ottawa region is fairly complex: the francophone-anglophone mix, the regional balance, the Quebec-Ontario balance, and the federal government, which plays a very prominent role.

I was manager of the Ottawa station for a number of years, and I can tell you that things are not easy in that region, although our ratings suggest that we are able to satisfy quite a few people.

10:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Guy Lauzon

There is one minute left, and I believe that Mr. Harvey would like to ask a question.

10:35 a.m.

Conservative

Luc Harvey Conservative Louis-Hébert, QC

In caucus, we recently discussed the fact that Radio-Canada is competing with producers by sometimes offering its post-production services at very low rates or almost for nothing.

What can be done to ensure that this Crown corporation does not compete with private services?

10:35 a.m.

Executive Vice-President, French Services, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

Sylvain Lafrance

First of all, what you said is not accurate, because Radio-Canada's rates are competitive. We do not lower our prices in order to sell our services. Canadians have invested in studios and highly competent personnel. The CBC Broadcasting Centre in Montreal is the largest television production centre in Canada. There are skills available there that the industry would not want to do without. So, we need to be careful.

High definition is being created at CBC/Radio-Canada. It's all taking place in the basement of the CBC Broadcasting Centre in Montreal. If our engineers and technicians were not paving the way for the arrival of high definition in Canada, it might never happen, and then we would have quite a problem on our hands.

Our studios are assets that Canadians have paid for and that can serve production as a whole. Because we work very closely with independent producers, they sometimes carry out their production in our facilities. So, it is inaccurate to say that Radio-Canada is lowering its rates for that purpose. At the same time, offering independent producers the best quality equipment and the most qualified staff is good public policy, in my opinion.

10:35 a.m.

Conservative

Le président Conservative Guy Lauzon

Mr. Godin, one last question.

10:35 a.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

First of all, I want to commend you for the new series entitled Planète Belle-Baie by the author Renée Blanchar, which will certainly be a hit. We also hope that this television series will be a popular one, even if it is a regional production. We're quite capable of doing good work, and I think we'll be in a position to demonstrate that. I have faith in Ms. Blanchar.

10:35 a.m.

Executive Vice-President, French Services, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

Sylvain Lafrance

I have certainly heard a lot of good things about it. I'm very optimistic.

10:35 a.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

I don't know where it's going to be filmed. It's called Planète Belle-Baie and one the most beautiful bays in the world is the Baie des Chaleurs. I don't know whether that's where it's going to be filmed, but I think it should be.

10:35 a.m.

An hon. member

The most beautiful bay is the Baie des Chaleurs.

10:35 a.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

It is certainly one of the most beautiful. The weather is beautiful, and it's warm. Everyone is invited to come. But I guess we're not supposed to say that!

When you say that your service in nine different languages should be carried by satellite, that worries me. Is Radio-Canada paying for this on its own, or is CBC doing its share?

10:35 a.m.

Executive Vice-President, French Services, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

Sylvain Lafrance

I'd say both are involved. In this case, we're talking about Radio Canada International, and I could spend three hours talking about that.

Radio Canada International had separate funding for a long time. Three months ago, Canadian Heritage agreed to restore responsibility for funding to Radio-Canada. So, it comes neither from Radio-Canada nor from CBC. In fact, if we're talking about it now, it's because I am responsible for managing Radio Canada International which, for practical reasons, is located in Montreal. It is under the mandate of the Vice-President in Montreal. People working in the nine different language sections at Radio Canada International are physically located in Montreal. It comes out of corporate financing.

10:40 a.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

There is one more thing we believe you should think about. Over a six-year period, if I'm not mistaken, there were three or four lockouts and two strikes at the Corporation. This has twice the impact in the regions. The Radio-Canada office in Moncton is linked to the one in Quebec. If they're on strike or have been locked out, we lose everything. When employees working for the English-language network are on strike, once again, we lose everything, because they're on the ground, with the English-language network. So, we get burnt twice.

10:40 a.m.

Executive Vice-President, French Services, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

Sylvain Lafrance

Union distribution is complicated. This is an historical situation. People in Moncton are part of unions...

10:40 a.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

If Radio-Canada had locked out all its employees, we would be facing the same situation.

10:40 a.m.

Executive Vice-President, French Services, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

Sylvain Lafrance

I am very pleased to tell you, Mr. Godin, that in Montreal, we have just signed two collective agreements with our two largest unions, with ratification rates of 90 per cent.

10:40 a.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

[Inaudible] Radio-Canada for signing.

10:40 a.m.

Executive Vice-President, French Services, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

Sylvain Lafrance

That's right.

We signed agreements with the two largest unions, with ratification rates of between 88 and 90 per cent. The process went very well, amidst an atmosphere that was very positive on both sides. We are currently negotiating a new collective agreement with producers. Again, that process is going well. Our objective, on the French-language side, is to improve our relations with both the unions and our staff.

10:40 a.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

In closing, I just want to say that the reason why we've been complaining this morning is that we like Radio-Canada. It's our radio and television network, and we want to see it improve across the country. There are francophones from sea to sea. We want to ensure that we can hear what francophones in Victoria have to say. There is even an Acadian association in Victoria now.

So, we're asking the representatives of Radio-Canada to review their programming as a whole and change it in such a way as to ensure that we can see our entire country and all francophones. There are people with talent out there. That will be clear in Planète Belle-Baie. I'm sure it's well worth exploring those talents and showcasing them for all to appreciate.