Official Languages Committee on Jan. 31st, 2008

[Graham Fraser]

I do not want to comment on the details of the incident. I think that Air Canada's service to its passengers is a very important matter, as well as the responsibilities of the Halifax International Airport.

We are currently looking into the Halifax incident. We are studying it in detail and we are looking into the airport's responsibility. I met with the president of Air Canada last week. We talked about the right of Air Canada's passengers to be served in their own language, and of the importance of that right. Further, we had a more in-depth discussion with Air Canada to find ways of improving the situation.

In part because of what happened, we added Air Canada to the list of 37 institutions which are covered by our performance bulletins. In our annual report, we will for the first time cover Air Canada and analyze what it does in terms of service and what happens in the workplace.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

That's quite interesting. Thank you, Mr. Commissioner.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I do not want to dwell on figures. Mr. Lemieux said that money was not the only important thing, that concrete action also mattered. The government boasted that it injected an additional $50 million into the action plan, but it certainly did not boast about cutting $50 million from the regular plan. The two things cancel each other out, and there still is a shortfall of $132 million.

Let's talk about the battles which were won thanks to the Court Challenges Program. Francophones on Prince Edward Island and in New Brunswick won the right to have French schools. That's why some young people were able to learn French and reconnect with their mother tongue.

Mr. Chong himself said that education is important. At every meeting, he wants to talk about education. But the fact remains that the regular plan is $132 million short. That's a lot of money, and it affects bilingualism and minorities in Canada.

[Graham Fraser]

I believe that the government must respect every single commitment it made under the action plan. This includes improving on commitments already made and making sure that the money is all spent.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

As for Mr. Lord, you seem to be paying him a lot of attention. You said that he got good results in New Brunswick. But I can tell you that your counterpart, Mr. Michel Carrier, who was the Official Languages Commissioner in New Brunswick at the time Mr. Lord was Premier, and whom you know well, said this week in the papers:

The position of Commissioner of Official Languages in New Brunswick has existed since 2003. Michel Carrier noted that in his four years as commissioner, he always received the same complaints. That's why he feels that departments and other government institutions must do more than simply react to non-compliance with the act.

Mr. Commissioner, there is no reason to boast about what was achieved in New Brunswick when Bernard Lord was Premier. He was not able to properly look after bilingualism in that province, so it doesn't look too good for Canada as a whole. The situation is clear: we have the data and the studies. I don't know if you looked at all the information. Further, New Brunswick's francophone minorities have shrunk by 2%. These are Statistics Canada's figures.

[Graham Fraser]

Mr. Chairman, with all due respect for Mr. Lord and the member of Parliament, I insist on repeating that I am focused on what the government is achieving. Even though we are on good terms, the final product is really all that matters.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Commissioner, you talk about the final product, but is it not a fact that there is a shortfall of $132 million which should have gone to the communities?

[Graham Fraser]

Those figures—

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

—talk.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Yes, but I've just received them, as have you. They were made public this week, and we still haven't conducted an in-depth analysis of them. Whatever the case may be, it's very important that the government spend the money it promised to spend.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chairman, will the Office of the Commissioner analyze why the communities did not receive $132 million?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

You have one minute left, Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chairman, I'm just asking for a yes or a no.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Don't worry, you still have a minute left. You'll have time to get your answer.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

There you go: I've worked myself up.

Will the commissioner try to find out why the missing $132 million were not spent on regular training and education programs as intended? A strategy was developed, and this strategy should yield results. The strategy came up $132 million short, which means that institutions did not receive any money, nor did people who could have taken language or literacy classes. The list is long.

[Graham Fraser]

Mr. Chairman, in our office, the word "investigation" has a very specific meaning. We are talking about figures which were made public the day before yesterday by the department. I will look at them, as will the member. It goes without saying that analyzing government results is part of our mandate. These figures are included in those results, and they have just been made public. We will therefore take these figures into account when we analyze the government's performance in this area.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much.

For our third round, we will begin with the official opposition.

Mr. D'Amours.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would also like to thank the commissioner and his accompanying staff.

Commissioner, you said earlier that you discussed the recent French-language service shortcomings, including those that occurred in Halifax, with the CEO of Air Canada. It's all well and good for the company to express a willingness to make progress, but as you mentioned on several occasions, it takes concrete action for things to actually get done.

I don't know whether I've already told you this, but I myself had a problem, albeit minor, which was quite unfortunate and insulting for francophone communities. And it's not the first time I've seen this kind of thing. In the last two weeks, in an Air Canada plane, I have seen a notice in French on the cockpit door which translated reads “Do Not Smoke The Toilet”. And don't worry, the English version was correct. I didn't have my camera, which was a pity. But, upon reflection, I may have been arrested had I taken a photo.

It's awful. A company which says it wants to make an effort is asking us to not smoke the toilet. Air Canada needs to ensure that the translations are acceptable. Now, don't worry, I have no desire whatsoever to smoke the toilet. I know what the sign means, but the problem is that these people are supposed to offer bilingual services. I'm sure someone from Air Canada is listening today. And if not, when you have an opportunity to speak to the CEO, tell him to make good on his good intentions by taking the kind of concrete action, albeit small, which will curb the frustration felt by francophones when it comes to services in French.

Having said that, on page 2 of your document, you said the following:

I was pleased to hear the government reiterate its support for linguistic duality in Canada in the Speech from the Throne on October 17, 2007 [...]

Once again, it's concrete action which is important. The Conservative government says many things, but we have seen recently how things have backfired. The government is reiterating its support for linguistic duality but at the same time has relieved National Defence, among others, of its obligation to staff certain positions with bilingual individuals. In other words, candidates no longer have to be bilingual in order to obtain these positions, which has the effect of eroding away linguistic duality. Isn't that behaviour contradictory?

I'd like to hear what you have to say on the matter.

[Graham Fraser]

As far as the Speech from the Throne is concerned, I've always said that it was a menu and not a meal. So we'll wait and see what is served up to us. I have a similar philosophy when it comes to the commission the government established. The results are what's important. Now in terms of the Canadian Forces, let me come back in part to what your colleague said.

I was very concerned when I heard about what Mr. Yves Côté discovered concerning the training received by French-speaking soldiers. I said very clearly to the people on the National Defence Joint Management Committee that Mr. Côté was perhaps on his way out, but that I was not going anywhere. We are now conducting audits on training. I have toured a number of military bases. We're keeping a very close eye on the Canadian Forces' transformation system, what people call the transition from a universal to a functional system. Only 44% or 47% of positions designated bilingual were filled by people able to communicate in both official languages. Clearly, it was a failure. The decision to change their approach was an admission of failure. What we now need to assess are the results of their new approach.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Fraser. As you are aware the committee also considerered the Borden case, among other cases.

We now go to the Bloc Québecois with Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I hope that Ms. Lemieux will accept my sincere apologies. Ms. Lemieux, earlier, I gave you the wrong title. I hope that you will forgive me.

Those of you who do not know what I am talking about should read the "blues".

Now that that is out of the way, Commissioner, you spoke about education in the language of the minority. There is what we call FL1, French as a first language, and FL2, French as second language. Under the action plan, the goal is to increase enrolment in minority official language community schools so that, by 2013, 80% of eligible children are enrolled. I do hope that we achieve 100%.

In the late 1990s, when I left Saskatchewan where I taught at the École canadienne-française de Saskatoon, there was a 10% enrolment rate even though Saskatoon is the most populous city in the province. We had our work cut out for us and there were hurdles. I am going to speak to you frankly and I am going to tell you what those hurdles were. We met with Canadian Parents for French and told them that it is all well and good to have immersion students, but that rights holders, in other words those young people whose mother tongue was French, should be in our schools. They agreed, but they said that these students were role models for their own children. So that kind of discussion went on. It was a problem. It was quite clearly a case of recruitment.

What is more, these school divisions or school boards did not want to lose these children because at the time the provincial budget allocated $5,400 per child. In addition to that, the Department of Education did not want to promote our schools, which accounted for one of the seven categories of schools of the Fransaskois School Board of Saskatchewan.

The purpose of the action plan is to meet the community's needs, that much we agree on. Can you shed some light on the matter and tell us how to successfully reach this goal of 80%? Can you answer that question and can you tell us what is currently happening? Earlier you referred to Edmonton. I assume that the Edmonton School Board had shown willingness to move forward on this.

I would like to speak to that issue.

[Graham Fraser]

I acknowledge—and it concerns me a lot—that the enrolment rate among rights holders is very low. I think the census study showed that there is an average enrolment rate of about 50% across Canada. It is all the more worrying because rights holders only have this right for one single generation. It is not an ongoing right, it disappears.

It is my deeply-held belief that we need to acknowledge the importance of excellence in our minority schools. Parents will not sacrifice the education of their children just for the sake of principle. If we give them an education where there are fewer programs, fewer services, less equipment, fewer sports, and if their young 14-year-old boy wants to play soccer and there is no soccer team at the French-language school and yet there is one at the English-language school, their choice will be quite difficult. My belief is that francophone schools are destined to provide excellence in education, and I have already told them that. They don't have any other choice.

Now, the departments of Education also share an obligation and that is to recognize that these schools cost more. Ontario has acknowledged this. The Government of Ontario acknowledged this difference after having calculated the per-student cost of minority francophone schools. There is now more money for students in minority schools than there is for students in majority schools. And no one is complaining about this. There has been an acknowledgement of this difference.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Commissioner.

We'll now move on to the Conservative Party, with Mr. Lemieux.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To begin with, I'd like to set the record straight on a few matters, especially in relation to what Mr. Godin said. I don't know what he was huffing and puffing about, but it was quite a challenge following his argument.

As far as the action plan is concerned, I should point out that the Liberal government announced a $751 million plan. In March 2008, $810 million will have been spent. In other words, our government increased spending under this plan. Other initiatives have been added. For example, we announced a $30 million envelope specifically for minority official language communities, and the communities were grateful for this. There is a $1 billion agreement between the federal government and the provinces for education, and to promote both languages. There's also $30 million which went to Canadian Heritage for official language francophone festivals.

So, Mr. Godin, you need to be more rigorous in speaking about this issue. We need to set the record straight as far as what Mr. Godin said earlier.

On the matter of education, I was involved in a number of meetings with stakeholders from the education community, especially representatives from immersion programs targeting anglophones who want to learn French and programs for francophones wishing to improve their own language skills.

We're interested in primary and secondary education, and that's why I mentioned our $1 billion agreement, in cooperation with the provinces and territories. But post-secondary education is also really important, especially after grade 12. What is really available to them in their own mother tongue? We've undertaken a number of initiatives in this regard also.

As parliamentary secretary, I went to Timmins to announce the allocation of a federal fund for Boréal College, Mr. Godin.

I'd like to hear your opinion about the post-secondary network and resources available across Canada.

[Graham Fraser]

You're referring to minority community post-secondary institutions.

Well, my position as commissioner has given me the opportunity to discover and observe the energy and vitality of these institutions which, often with limited resources, do extraordinary things. You referred to the Boréal College. I visited the Sudbury campus of the Boréal College. The Boréal College comprises several campuses. There is the University of Hearst, and the Cité collégiale here, in Ottawa.

There is now a network of institutions working together across Canada, which share best practices and often establish agreements and relationships with anglophone institutions in order to provide programs and classes. I'm referring to the Saint-Jean campus, which is the francophone campus of the University of Alberta. There's also the Bureau des affaires francophones et francophiles at Simon Fraser University. There's the Collège universitaire de Saint-Boniface in Winnipeg. There are networks of post-secondary programs across Ontario, francophone colleges, and also, of course, the University of Ottawa and Laurentian University. There are anglophone universities in Quebec, which are, generally speaking, in a slightly different situation. And there is the Université Sainte-Anne in the Maritimes.

All these institutions do a good job.