Official Languages Committee on April 8th, 2008

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

We will conclude on this point.

[Bernard Lord]

Pardon me, it's on page 18 of the report. It states very clearly:

To build capacity, community organizations would like more support from the government. Some participants suggested that a program be put in place to address the need for conflict mediation and resolution with regard to language rights with a component providing for the defence and promotion of language rights before the courts under exceptional circumstances.

I mentioned programs like that one. It's true, I did not mention it by name in the report. This is something that was heard many times. I talked about it in my interviews and I made recommendations pertaining to something else. Given that there was a case which was—and still is—before the courts, I chose at that time not to make any specific recommendations on this issue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Rodriguez.

We will now turn to the Bloc Québécois, and to Mr. Richard Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good afternoon, Mr. Lord.

Mr. Lord, in your opinion, what is endangered in Canada: bilingualism or the French language?

[Bernard Lord]

Your question would indicate that you are assuming that one or the other is in danger in Canada. I do not share this opinion, and therefore I cannot choose between the two. I think that the French language is doing well in Canada. Bilingualism is doing well also. There are challenges for the French language, there are challenges for bilingualism and there are challenges for the official language communities in Canada. It is for this reason, I believe, that the government of Canada has a role to play, as do the other governments in Canada. Governments need to support linguistic communities in minority situations. This is why I accepted the mandate that was given to me; this issue is dear to my heart. Official languages are part of my Canadian identity. I accepted this mandate in order to be able to make a contribution.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

You were the premier of an officially bilingual province. You come from a province where there is a very significant French speaking community, an Acadian community and a Brayon community. Statistics show that since 1951, the French language has been loosing ground in an alarming manner. Nowhere in your report does it indicate something specific about the efforts required to ensure the vitality of the French fact in the various provinces and in the Quebec nation.

The Standing Committee on official languages did this, for instance, when it visited the various communities in the fall of 2006. We discussed all of the required mechanisms, not to ensure that the children whose first language is French learn English and become bilingual, but to ensure that francophones are able to fight against assimilation which is a very serious problem once you move away from Quebec.

Did this aspect come out during your consultations? Did you go to the trouble of meeting with organizations that defend the French language in Quebec, as you did moreover in the other provinces in order to understand the needs of these communities and organizations, and to ensure that the French fact continues in North America, Canada, Quebec just as it does in each of the provinces?

[Bernard Lord]

Thank you for your question. I met with people throughout the country who are working, on a daily basis, to help linguistic communities in minority situations develop and grow, socially, economically and culturally, and build institutions that will assist and support these communities in the future. I met with individuals from British Columbia to Nova Scotia. When I went to Quebec, we met primarily with representatives from the minority anglophone communities in Quebec.

To answer your question specifically, I did not meet with people whose mission must to defend the French language in Quebec. I did not do so because that was not part of my mandate. These people were ??? however, invited to participate in the consultation through the Internet.

That said, I met with people who, as I already mentioned, are dedicated and work ardently to ensure that their children are able to develop in the language of their choice. These people acknowledge the existence of challenges for linguistic minorities in many places in Canada.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

On another issue, but still on the same topic, within the government and the public service we have so called French or bilingual positions that are staffed by unilingual anglophones. This is a problem.

Did you take time to meet with civil servants, public service agencies and the Public Service Commission? We know that the purpose of the first official language plan was to ensure that every individual who wanted to be served in French by the federal government would be able to do so, but these positions that were created to provide French services are not staffed by individuals who speak French. Did you meet with these people and did you see how you could help them resolve this problem?

[Bernard Lord]

The short answer to your question is no, simply because I didn't have the mandate to meet with everyone. I had been given time in order to allow me to meet specifically with community organizations throughout the country.

In my opinion, the government is fully aware of its obligations. This committee among others, has done work in this area. The Commissioner of Official Languages, with whom I met, has also done so. I am meeting with you today. I appreciate the fact that you wanted to meet with me before.

My job was to chair consultations with individuals and community groups through the country. That was the mandate I was given, the mandate I accepted and fulfilled.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

You referred to the Court Challenges Program. Last week, I met with representatives of the Quebec Community Groups Network. They told me that when they met with you they also told you about the importance of restoring this program.

I am not asking you to take a position on the current situation. However, how can you say that it wasn't appropriate to put in your report something that is mentioned in the last three reports published by the Standing Committee on Official Languages, with communities and advocacy groups for visible minorities and the handicapped? Why not at least take the time to mention it?

[Bernard Lord]

I am pleased to respond again to this question because I feel like I'm being asked again. I heard those comments and I shared them during a number of interviews. When we were in Montreal, representatives of the anglophone community also said that they liked the old program. That's why I wrote, on page 18 of my report, that groups wanted a similar program. In it, I mentioned that there were other solutions than simply restoring the old program, which was not part of the action plan but rather an additional tool used in some circumstances.

Mr. Chair, I want to add to this. We must understand that the former Court Challenges Program is the only way to have access to the courts to defend one's rights. It is possible to defend one's rights without that program. We must distinguish between the two.

I understand that some groups clearly indicated that this program was an important tool to help them defend their rights before the courts.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, gentlemen.

We will now go to Mr. Yvon Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Lord, welcome to the Standing Committee on Official Languages.

In accordance with your mandate, did you submit a preliminary report to the minister before the final report?

[Bernard Lord]

My work comprised various stages. A summary of the consultations on the website was published and a draft report was written.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

To whom did you have to submit a summary? To the minister, the department?

[Bernard Lord]

There were several summaries. According to my contract, the minister was to get a summary, which was done.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Prior to submitting the final report when did you submit a summary?

[Bernard Lord]

I don't remember the date, but the final report was completed before the end of February. I worked on the report with the assistance that I had been provided throughout January and February. Consultations were held in early December. The consultations on the website ended on December 22 or 23. Then, we prepared a summary.

I will give you the details, if you will allow me to do so, Mr. Godin. We submitted the summary of the website consultations during the wrap-up event held in Ottawa at the end of January. We also submitted a summary of the discussions that had taken place. Then, I agreed to meet with people who were not listed in the initial contract. That is why the summary was completed at the end of February rather than earlier.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Okay. You submitted reports not only of the Web consultations, but also of the meetings that you held in Toronto and in Vancouver. The Telegraph Journal of February 15 is right when it states:

Lord said Thursday he's handed his draft report in to Heritage Minister Josée Verner's office and had a chance to speak to the minister about his recommendation.

Those are the facts, right?

[Bernard Lord]

No, the paper was referring to the final report There was no draft of the final report.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chair, I could table the article with the clerk. The Telegraph Journal refers to a draft report.

Then you continue, stating:

“We've talked about some of the funding issues and they know what I think about them," said Lord. “They have an idea what I think should be included in the budget, but it's their decision.”

They were talking about the draft report,

a draft. Do you agree?

[Bernard Lord]

I didn't write the article in the Telegraph Journal.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I'm not asking the person who wrote the article, I'm asking you whether you submitted a draft report to the minister.

[Bernard Lord]

Mr. Godin, earlier, I told you that the final report was submitted to the minister in late February. Throughout the process, people from the department were present at the consultations. They supported me in my work and they were fully aware of the information.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chair, that is not my question. Is there a report? According to your contract—