Official Languages Committee on March 26th, 2009

[Marielle Poirier]

Our federation makes submissions to the Government of Quebec. For the moment, we're very pleased that the government is allocating the CEGEPs their share of the total budget allocated for postsecondary education. We've also obtained a 40-60 share—40 being the CEGEP share—which exactly corresponds to the percentage of funding allocated to our two systems by the Government of Quebec.

The federation makes submissions to the Government of Quebec, but none to the federal government. The Association of Canadian Community Colleges handles that for us.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Mr. Petit.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Good morning, Mr. Dulude, Mr. Rainville and Ms. Poirier.

I was pleased to hear Mr. Dulude say that Mr. Fraser was currently conducting a study. It comes at the right time because that is precisely what we're trying to get with you. I understand that time is very limited.

Mr. Dulude, you represent all Canadian universities. I come from Quebec City, and Université Laval is part of your group. I'm in both systems, the old and the new. We used to enter university after completing a classical education. Now you go through a CEGEP before going to university.

Correct me if I'm wrong. On the anglophone side, you have to do four years of university. You do part of the Quebec CEGEP program, then you enter the university program. In fact, when you speak on behalf of Canadian universities, it's as though you were talking about one year of CEGEP within your group.

[André Dulude]

We also speak on behalf of Quebec universities.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I understand. Ms. Poirier rightly says that she has to negotiate for the money for her students to come from a single source, the Quebec government. Her hands are somewhat more tied than yours in certain respects. You have one year in which you can negotiate with the Government of Canada, which she can't do. For two years, she can only turn to the Government of Quebec. In the anglophone universities, where the education is a bit different from ours, it's one year.

As regards the public service, you were asked earlier whether it was possible for students leaving university or college to be bilingual in order to work in Ottawa, for example. In that way, the federal government would not have to act as a second-language instruction institution. We're trying to determine what the possible options are in this direction.

[André Dulude]

I've just left the public service after 35 years of service. So I've seen bilingualism evolve in that environment. In the past 10 years, I've seen perfectly bilingual anglophones, like your colleague Ms. Glover, emerge from immersion programs. They hadn't necessarily studied at francophone or bilingual universities, but their French was more than acceptable, nearly perfect, as a result of those immersion programs. So there have been significant and positive developments in the federal public service. There's no doubt on that subject.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

In the public service, certain high level positions such as deputy minister positions, for example, require highly developed skills. We're not just talking about legal or medical training, but also scientific training, in certain cases. From what we've been told, many deputy ministers do not know the second language. They have come out of university, have extraordinary skills, but are incapable of expressing what they want or understanding what is going on in the other language. Is the federal government required to teach these people the basics of their second language, whatever it may be? Is that our role or yours?

[André Dulude]

I must correct you. I worked for Mr. Chong at the Privy Council. I spent 12 years at the Privy Council as a public servant, not in politics. As part of those duties, you only deal with the 49 deputy ministers. When I was told, and I'm a francophone, that I couldn't address the 49 deputy ministers in French, I couldn't agree. They're bilingual.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

You should tell them that, not me.

[André Dulude]

I'm telling you: I spent 12 years at the Privy Council. My minister can confirm that for you. We spoke in French with the deputy ministers.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Are you sure of that?

[André Dulude]

On a daily basis. I didn't speak English or Spanish to those deputy ministers, I spoke to them in French. I'm not talking about the assistant deputy ministers, the directors general or all public servants, but about a group of 49 deputy ministers. They aren't stupid; they spend time learning French.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lise Zarac]

They're bilingual, but is bilingualism one of the criteria in their case?

[André Dulude]

They aren't required to be bilingual, but they have enough common sense to become it.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lise Zarac]

Thank you.

It's Mr. Godin's turn.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I wouldn't want to move from the postsecondary field to the situation of deputy ministers, but the fact remains that I don't agree with you. When they are appointed, some deputy ministers don't speak French and are required to learn it in Ottawa.

Do you agree with me?

[André Dulude]

They learn it.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

That's it. Now we're hearing another story.

Mr. Dulude, if they learn it, that's because people are forced to speak English to them for a period of time.

[André Dulude]

There is a learning period for some.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Ah, there's a learning period for some. Thank you for clarifying that.

[André Dulude]

I never said they were bilingual on arrival. I said they were bilingual after a period of time.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

They are after a certain period of time, but they aren't for a while.

[André Dulude]

They aren't always bilingual when they arrive, but that's a minority.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Can you tell the government that, please? It seems they understood something else.

[André Dulude]

I think they heard me.