Official Languages Committee on May 5th, 2009

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lise Zarac]

Your time is up, unfortunately.

We will now move on to Mrs. Glover.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Welcome, Minister Toews, Madame d'Auray, and Monsieur O'Sullivan; bienvenue ici.

I want to thank you, Minister, for helping me to get to the place where I am now. I want to put on the record for members opposite that when I became a candidate, you were very helpful in addressing the Chartier report and making me aware of it. That helped me substantially to learn about official languages in our province of Manitoba, as well as about the official language situation across the country. I commend you for your efforts.

I also want to mention that I too, as you stated, believe in knowledge, competencies, qualifications, and experiences to make up part of what we want to see in our leaders. I commend you for all of that, and I welcome your responses to some of my questions here today in that light.

The first question I would put to you, Minister, is this. You've indicated that you have a role to play in ensuring that government institutions comply with the Official Languages Act. I'd like to know what the Treasury Board does to ensure that.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Thank you very much, Ms. Glover.

The responsibility of Treasury Board related to official languages is quite clear and it is in a supportive role. I should say that every institution is responsible for the application of the act within its own organization. Treasury Board, however, is responsible for overseeing the overall application of the act with regard to service to the public, language of work, and equitable participation. More specifically, it adopts policy instruments and oversees the status of the official languages programs and institutions, subject to parts IV, V, and VI of the act, as I've indicated in my preliminary comments, and particularly through the annual assessment that it asks those institutions to submit.

Of course, it also provides support, opinions, and advice to institutions through the office of the chief human resources officer. Perhaps she could add something to my comments.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Go ahead.

[Michelle d'Auray]

Thank you, Minister.

We do a fair amount of work in support of the organizations that are perhaps having some of the challenges in providing services to the public. We also support the coordinators of official languages. We work with organizations to provide easy-to-use tools, for example, in understanding how they should establish bilingual positions. We are essentially the people who establish policies, as the minister indicated, but also those who facilitate and support and work very closely with departments and organizations. Ultimately, they are the ones who are responsible for meeting their obligations under the act.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Excellent. Thank you for enlightening us on that.

I want to make mention as well, Minister, that the Commissioner for Official Languages was here and spent a bit of time commending Manitoba for its French language service in the area of immigration, saying that we actually are leaders in this country. I know you had a big part to play in that as well, so I thank you for it.

I want to touch on what you just said, Madame d'Auray.

Ms. d'Auray, you said there were tools we could use. Which ones?

[Michelle d'Auray]

Thank you.

We provide a number of tools. For instance, if an organization or a department wants to set a level of linguistic skills for a given position, it is given the tools to establish this level objectively. We also support departments in establishing points of service which must provide services in both official languages according to census data.

We also help departments determine what they should be focusing on to facilitate the hiring of bilingual individuals. We provide a range of tools for the various organizations. We provide interpretation of questions regarding use or scope of regulations. We help the organizations a great deal.

We hold a number of meetings and discussions so that departments may share their best practices. Not everyone has the best possible ideas. What works for one department could be applied or implemented in another. We provide this type of networking and support, but ultimately the burden of responsibility rests on institutions.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lise Zarac]

Thank you.

We will now move to the second round of questions, three minutes each. I would like to remind all members that Mr. Toews will have to leave at 10.

Mr. D'Amours.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Madam Chair and Minister.

I will be asking you alone to answer my questions given that the two individuals accompanying you will be staying behind for an extra hour once you've left the meeting, and that you cannot stay with us for the entire two hours.

It seems as though it is a real burden for you to be here today, all the more so given that your prime minister has asked you to be responsible for a number of aspects relating to official languages. It looks as though you'd rather be elsewhere. When we speak of official languages and bilingualism in Canada and you are told that you should perhaps be bilingual in order to serve all Canadians, you take that as an insult. I personally find it insulting that you would have the gall to make such comments. Without looking at your notes, can you tell me, with respect to language of work...

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

On a point of order, Madam Chair, the minister has come in front of our committee to answer questions, not to be badgered by members of this committee and insulted. I would ask, Madam Chair, that you ask the members of this committee to accord the minister the respect that his office entails.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lise Zarac]

I'm sorry, Mr. Chong, this is not a point of order.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Because this was not a point of order, I would hope my time has not been cut short.

Minister, without looking at your notes, are you able to tell me in what part language of work...

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

A point of order. I believe he's allowed to look at his notes whenever he wants. I don't think it's up to us to tell him whether he can or cannot look at his notes.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lise Zarac]

I'm sorry, this is not a point of order either, Mrs. Glover.

Mr. D'Amours, please continue.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I can understand that Conservative members may not want their minister to respond, but they should have some respect for members of the opposition.

Minister, under what part of the Official Languages Act does the issue of language of work arise?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Yes?

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

I'm awaiting a response.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I know you're trying to belittle the whole process here. You're trying to make a mockery of it. No, no, let me finish. Hold it, you've had your questions.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Minister, I asked you a question. Where can we find language of work addressed within the Official Languages Act?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Let me respond. Just have the decency to let me respond.

I came here in good faith, and the first thing that happens to me is I'm insulted. For some reason I'm less of a Canadian, I'm less entitled to hold public office, because I only speak one of the official languages. You know, for the past number of years, as a public official in Manitoba, I have worked very hard for French language rights in that province. I have stood for French language rights.

My own riding understands where I stand on the issue of French language rights. I have never hesitated to protect French language rights, and I am willing to protect minority language rights in every part of the country. I'm willing to respect those who speak French alone, unilingually. I respect those who speak English, and of course there are certain fortunate people who speak both official languages.

I'm very proud of my own daughter, who's bilingual, who went to an immersion school. I didn't have that opportunity, but I can tell you that I am as committed as anyone to the issue of bilingualism in this country, the recognition and the protection of both official languages, and for you to come here and insult me in that way is quite a disgrace. I thought we had gotten beyond that kind of situation. Unbelievable.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Minister, there's a difference between being a Canadian citizen and having the right to speak in the language of one's choice, and being the minister responsible for the application of official languages within the public service, and for ensuring that the people providing these services are in a position to do so.

I will ask my question in other terms. In your opinion, under what part of the Official Languages Act does the issue of language of service occur? I'm only asking for a number.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I understand it's in part V.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

I'm really sorry, but it's part IV.

It's under part IV, Minister, and not part V.

I simply changed my question. I started by referring to language of work and, to be sure that you knew the answer, I referred to language of service.

Minister, you are responsible for the application of those parts of the Official Languages Act intended to ensure that we provide services to francophones and anglophones across Canada. Yet, you yourself are not even in a position to tell me what parts of the Official Languages Act you are responsible for. That is shameful!

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lise Zarac]

Pardon me for interrupting.

I would like to make a comment at this point. I think that no one should take anything personally. The objective of the committee here is to ensure—and that's why you were invited, Mr. Toews—that the official languages are—

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I've been at many committees, and I've never experienced this kind of insult toward the fact that I speak only one of the official languages--never in my life. And I never believed that the Liberal Party would take that kind of position. But it's clear that the Liberal Party considers those of us who speak one official language to be less of a Canadian with the responsibilities of Canadian citizenship, including elected office and appointment to the executive. I would have found that very difficult to believe had I not heard it here.

Those are the kinds of comments that irritate people right across this country, that we are not entitled to have the same rights as everyone in this country.