Official Languages Committee on May 26th, 2009

[Pierre Daigle]

According to my mandate, I have to make public an annual report to the minister. As for all the other reports on systemic or main investigations, I am entirely at liberty to make them public or not. However, most are. I give the minister 28 days' notice that I'm going to make a document public.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Daigle.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Nadeau.

Ms. Glover, do you want to add something?

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you for being here, Mr. Daigle and Mr. Egglefield. I'm a patient person. My questions will be similar to those that my colleagues have asked because they didn't get a complete answer.

Are you aware of the letter that a general wrote in January concerning the promotion of our soldiers, among other things? Mr. Nadeau asked a number of questions on that matter.

[Pierre Daigle]

I couldn't tell you, Ms. Glover.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

You also said that you weren't aware of our National Defence Official Languages Program Transformation Model. However, you are quick to criticize it. And yet some good things have been done.

General Walter Natynczyk sent that letter, which I want to share with my colleagues, to all generals in the Canadian Forces on January 5, 2009. That includes the following military ranks: general, lieutenant-general, major-general and brigadier-general in the land and air forces, and admiral, vice-admiral, rear-admiral and commodore in the maritime force.

That letter establishes that proficiency in English and French second language is now a leadership competency. Promotion cannot be obtained without proficiency in those languages.

I am somewhat surprised. This is probably not your fault because you have only been in your position for three months. However, you've learned certain things from other ombudsmen. Mr. Daigle, you've given answers here today that are intended as criticisms, but you haven't shared the good news with our colleagues.

Pardon me, but I would like them to know that this letter demonstrates a will to ensure that French is part of our promotion procedure.

In addition, I sincerely suggest that you look at our National Defence Official Languages Program Transformation Model. I know that you have only been in your position for three months. However, I would like there to be a little more balance and fairness because good things have happened. I don't want our colleagues to get the impression that nothing has been done, since other things have been done of which I know you are not aware.

We will soon be hearing from the minister. He will be coming to explain those other matters that are good news for our land, air and maritime forces. I think we're sincerely taking linguistic duality into account in our efforts. I just want to give credit for that.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you for those comments, Ms. Glover.

Earlier I had two speeches. Now two speakers have been added. However, I wouldn't want us to self-feed...

I believe it's Mr. Lemieux' turn.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I want to make a comment on the analysis conducted by our analyst, Jean-Rodrigue Paré. He has prepared a report. There are nearly 35 pages of teaching material on the subject of courses. As I mentioned earlier, most of the material is bilingual. Based on a quick estimate, there are perhaps 1,400 course manuals, perhaps 50 of which are in English only, which represents a percentage of about 3% or 4%.

I also noted that the manuals in English are not military manuals; they are instead manuals intended to assist during the courses.

For example, they're under ISBN numbers. Here is one: Machinery's Handbook, 24th Edition. It's a large book, and it's used as a supplement on the course. There's another here on the technology of machine tools. These are the kinds of books that are in English only.

That's why I asked the question about percentages. I'm not saying there aren't any problems at CFB Borden. I want to emphasize that there are problems that we have to solve. However, there are also important perspectives that help gain a better understanding of where the effort is being made first. I said that military members are recognized for setting priorities.

That's where they're going to put their effort. I think it's always good to look at some of these statistical numbers that are associated with some of the comments made to understand how big a problem this is.

As I pointed out, I just did a very quick review. I know the analyst is going to hand this out. We can all do a more in-depth review. But certainly, from what I saw here, well over 90% to 95% of the manuals are bilingual. There is just the odd one, and it has an ISBN number, which means that it's one that's commercially purchased on the market.

Thank you, Chair, for indulging me. Merci.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Lemieux. You have recalled for us those English reference books we had to go through in our former studies.

Monsieur D'Amours.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Is it possible to get Ms. Glover's cooperation? She referred to a letter. However, I don't think that letter has been distributed to the members of the Official Languages Committee. It would be good to get a copy of it in both official languages in order to review it later.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Is that suitable to you, Ms. Glover?

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

The analyst [Inaudible - Editor].

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

All right. We'll try to distribute it before the meeting. In any case, next Thursday, we'll be hearing from the Commissioner of Official Languages and we'll proceed with the study. Then we'll hear from armed forces officials.

If you have a witness list to forward to us concerning the subjects under study, you must ask us to update the witness list. We have three or four meetings left to fill before the summer break.

Mr. Petit?

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Could our dear analyst, Jean-Rodrigue Paré, provide the list of books? There's still a doubt in my mind. Mr. Paré has done some very good research, but we don't know whether it's been applied. Would it be possible to submit the list to Mr. Daigle and Mr. Egglefield? I know they're not the ones who prepare them. Could they give us an answer before we meet with the minister?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Perhaps we could check with the ombudsman, if he believes that's within his mandate and if that suits him.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

He may not even know.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Perhaps we can provide them to you.

Do you want to make a comment, Mr. Daigle?

[Pierre Daigle]

I'm going to see what I can do, even though I think that's a little outside my mandate.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Then you're going to consider Mr. Petit's request.

Thank you very much for your baptism of fire in our committee, Mr. Daigle. I believe you've passed the test with flying colours. We'll be monitoring developments on bilingualism in the training of young military members.

Thank you.

The meeting is adjourned.