Official Languages Committee on May 28th, 2009

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Just a broader point, though. I think it's obviously a very detailed and well-researched annual report. So often we focus on the symptoms of many of the challenges facing the French language in Canada and we don't focus on one of the fundamental issues, which is that there is a decline in the use of French outside the province of Quebec.

I think this is a huge long-term issue for the country. Statistics Canada has noted that the number of bilingual Canadians between the ages of 15 and 19, the key demographic group, declined between 1996 and 2006, from 16% to 13%--

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

There's one minute left, Mr. Chong.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

If that trend holds, that is the most worrisome trend of all, more worrisome than any other issues around the use of French in the public service, the use of French in our judicial system and the like, because that is where the rubber hits the road in the next 50 years.

I would suggest that in future reports maybe a heavier emphasis could be placed on examining the role of federal institutions and the federal government in promoting bilingualism amongst our young people, not only in our post-secondary education, as I know you are presently focused on, but in our public school system.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Chong.

Mr. Fraser, I'm going to have to ask you to answer this question at the next round.

Madam Zarac.

[Graham Fraser]

We can go into it in more detail at the next session.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

In the letter accompanying your report, you say that because of the economic crisis we are currently going through, a decrease in funding might be an obstacle to the continuity of this policy. You seem to imply this concern in your first recommendation, which is addressed to the Prime Minister of Canada.

Do you have any other recommendations? I think this is a very important issue. It is the first recommendation contained in your report, and you say that if we are to maintain linguistic equality, the government will have to demonstrate its commitment through concrete measures. So what would you recommend to the committee to ensure that adequate funding be provided?

[Graham Fraser]

It is that you continue to remain vigilant. I think you have already had a significant effect by putting the question to the minister and to senior officials.

There is something I have not forgotten, and it more or less underlies this recommendation, and that is the fact that we are still living with the repercussions caused by the cutbacks made in 1995. Just think of the closing of the Royal Military College in Saint-Jean. Despite the fact that the government has started to rebuild the institution, the education level which it provides today is only at the CEGEP level. We are not yet back to the level of education the institution provided when it was closed as a military training centre almost 15 years ago. This concerns me and I am keeping my eye on the matter.

When we are experiencing an economic crisis, investment is lower and resources are reallocated, which means that we must carefully monitor exactly what it is the government is doing.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Do I have any time left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

You have 30 seconds left, Mrs. Zarac.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

In the conclusion of your report, you say, as regards government and its institutions, and I quote: “The fact that the English and French languages are and will continue to occupy an equal place in Canada must be demonstrated through concrete measures.”

Do you believe that French and English are on an equal footing in Canada today?

[Graham Fraser]

I think that there is a significant discrepancy in the status of the two. The report indicates what these discrepancies are, but it simultaneously points to past successes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Commissioner.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

On page 3 of your presentation you mentioned that in 2010, it will be five years since Parliament strengthened part VII of the Official Languages Act. As we know, part VII is about the advancement of French and English. I would like to congratulate the other parties that raised this issue, because the organizations in our communities are not receiving any money. Cases such as this are not violations of part VII. We claim to be promoting minority language, but we do not provide the tools required to do so.

The government has made a commitment to help the community and to provide funding, but when organizations have to use credit and credit cards and lay people off in order to survive, how can they possibly do any promotional work in their community? Mr. Chong spoke about education and people, but this was part of what he was saying.

[Graham Fraser]

Mr. Chair: I have already said that I thought the situation was very serious, because it means the organizations are very vulnerable. I hesitate to state here that one action or another is or is not a violation of part VII of the act, because we analyze all complaints regarding part VII. This is a serious evaluation.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

With all due respect, I think the Commissioner of Official Languages is the watchdog for the official languages. That is your mandate under the act. You are an officer of Parliament and you report to Parliament. That is what you are doing today, you are reporting not to the Government of Canada, but rather to Parliament. That is your responsibility. Under your mandate, you can make complaints.

The lack of funding for the communities did not just happen under the Conservatives, it happened under the Liberals as well. I have been a member of Parliament since 1997, and I always hear the same complaint. When will the analysis be complete? Will anything be done? You have the power to do something.

[Graham Fraser]

To my knowledge, we have not received any specific complaints on the problem you mentioned.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

May I make a complaint myself? Organizations may be afraid that they will get nothing at all if they complain.

[Graham Fraser]

You can, absolutely.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

You will be getting one.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Godin.

I will now give the floor to Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

You studied 15 different institutions, Mr. Fraser. If I understand correctly, the performance of nine of these federal institutions had worsened. Twenty per cent of francophones do not manage to get service in French. These are some of the points that are made. Ninety per cent of the complaints are made by francophones. I am talking about complaints made to the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages.

How do you explain that? I know that this does not happen just in the federal public service, but it is mainly in the federal public service. I would like to emphasize that I am not blaming public servants. You were talking about the institution a little earlier. Why is it that we are still in this situation? Who needs a kick in the pants if we want to see some change?

[Graham Fraser]

I continue to identify the problems you mentioned. My interpretation is that certain reflexes are lacking within institutions, particularly with respect to bilingual greetings and the active offer of service. I have concluded that the complaint process, which is reactive, is rather limited in what it can do to change the behaviour of institutions.

I have seen reports or complaint letters sent to institutions. Often they are about the same incident that happened over and over again, and the institution in question apologizes or explains why the service was not provided. This is the very reason we decided to play a more active role with the institutions. We want to change the way in which they behave, and rather than waiting to get a complaint before we act, we have chosen to go beyond the complaint process. Often, complaints are not the only indication of problems. People become disillusioned and stop making complaints, because they think there is no point in doing so.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Commissioner.

We will suspend the meeting for one minute to give your officials time to take their seats.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

We are now beginning the second part of our meeting. We will be hearing from Mr. Fraser once again, but this time he will be speaking about the federal government's support for post-secondary institutions and their efforts in promoting bilingualism in Canada.

You will be presenting the results of your work, Mr. Fraser. Without further ado, I will now give you the floor for your second presentation.

[Graham Fraser]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I am pleased to have this opportunity to present the preliminary results of our study on second-language learning opportunities in Canada's universities. This issue has long held great interest for me, and I believe that it is an important question for Canadians.

I am accompanied today by Carsten Quell, Director, Policy and Research; Mylène Thériault, Team Leader, Policy and Research, and Mark Goldenberg, the consultant who is working closely with members of my office on this study.

While we have extensive knowledge and information about second-language learning at the elementary and secondary levels, I believe this additional piece is essential in order for Canadians to have a complete continuum in second-language learning. In fact, one of the recommendations included in my annual report is that the Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages quickly implement the commitments announced in the “Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality” to support second-language learning by bringing together all partners involved in this issue.

Knowledge of our two official languages is important for our young people's development, especially considering increased international competition and the global knowledge economy. Knowledge of both English and French by more Canadians is also important as part of Canada's commitment to linguistic duality and for the effective functioning of our country in many different sectors. And in the context of the renewal of the public service, it's important for a national government to have access to a larger pool of bilingual recruits.

Today, I have provided you with the preliminary findings of this major study that we are undertaking. As part of our study, an extensive survey was conducted of second-language programs and courses currently offered at Canada's universities.

Access to second-language courses at universities is generally good. However, opportunities for students to study in their second language are quite limited.

We found that there is generally good access to "regular" programs and courses for students to learn their second language, but that there are relatively few opportunities to do so more intensively, such as taking academic subjects taught in the second language. Only a very limited number of courses and a very narrow range of subjects are being offered in the second language.

Very few universities have any second-language policies or requirements. Those that exist are rather minimal and usually apply to only a few courses in a language other than French in Quebec and other than English throughout the rest of Canada.

There is little formal collaboration between English- and French-language institutions in Canada that would give students greater second-language exposure. While many Canadian universities offer or facilitate exchange opportunities with other countries, exchange opportunities between institutions within Canada are quite limited.

One finding that might interest you is that only a handful of public administration programs in Canada offer courses in the other language, have language requirements, or offer exchange-type activities.

What works? How can we improve second-language learning in university?

Students said that the professor is the most important factor and that smaller classes provide for greater interaction in the second language. They find that content-rich second-language courses—including more cultural and targeted subject-matter content—makes the experience more stimulating. They believe that they would benefit from taking a least some subject-matter courses in the second language to deepen their knowledge of it.

Language-learning experts agree on the effectiveness of content-based learning, and that a range of learning supports has to be available and tailored to the particular situations and needs of institutions and students. They told us that recognition and accreditation are important motivators for students, and that language-learning opportunities should be provided early at the university level.

Professors and university administrators involved in second-language programs say that leadership and commitment from the top are critical and that the university has to signal that it values second-language learning. This requires planning, coordinating, organizing, and negotiating with other faculties and institutions. It also means additional costs to universities and faculties, costs that are not adequately recognized by the usual per capita funding formula. And students, professors, administrators, experts, and government officials all agree that real-life opportunities to use and practise the second language, exchanges, and other opportunities for interaction with people who speak the other language are vital. You cannot fully learn another language simply by taking a course.

Finally, we know of some interesting initiatives and good practices out there, as well as possible models and approaches that are effective and that can point the way. These include the expertise and experience of bilingual institutions like the University of Ottawa, and York's Glendon College; the efforts by Campus Saint-Jean and the Collège universitaire Saint-Boniface to attract English-language students and offer an immersion-type learning experience; initiatives to offer second-language courses tailored to specific disciplines such as business English at the Université de Montréal and French for business or law at the University of Western Ontario; Simon Fraser University's Office of Francophone and Francophile Affairs; Memorial University's one-semester immersion program in Saint-Pierre-et-Miquelon; and others.

So where do we go from here?

We know that more and better second-language learning opportunities at university are important—for young people and for Canada. We know that opportunities for intensive exposure to the second language are limited. We know that there's a growing need and demand. And we know what works to make students more proficient.

Our study points to a number of potential broad directions for intervention: we need to offer more intensive second-language learning opportunities; we need to make better use of the potential of institutions that teach in the other official language, through collaboration and partnerships and the use of technology; we need to offer students more exchanges and real life opportunities to use their second language in Canada; and we need to look again at second-language policies and requirements and how they can be used to improve second-language learning at university.

The final report, including recommendations, will be available in the fall. Moving forward in these and other areas will require the commitment and collaboration of all interested parties--universities, educational organizations, government, and others.

I look forward to answering any questions you may have.

Thank you very much.