Official Languages Committee on May 28th, 2009

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Mr. Fraser, this is no laughing matter. Please understand that I come from Quebec, and I want Quebec to remain part of Canada. However, they have been saying for 40 years that we are not accepted in Canada because Canadians do not speak French, and so forth. You are holding a bomb in your hands. Either you disarm it, or you allow it to explode.

You, as Official Languages Commissioner, what would you do? This has been going on for 40 years. What do we do?

[Graham Fraser]

I will have to look at the transcript. I don't believe that I said assimilation was certain, meaning inevitable. What I may have said is that assimilation is a phenomenon that exists. I can't refute the numbers.

Considering the ground covered over the past 40 years, I believe we are in a better position now than we were 40 years ago in terms of the vitality of minority communities. French schools and French television and radio stations are accessible throughout the country today. Moreover, francophones are able to receive services 75% of the time throughout the country when service positions are designated as bilingual.

The situation is not perfect, and the level is not as high as I would like it to be. A student with a mark of 75% will not receive a scholarship. We are not winning any awards with a mark of 75%, but it is not a failure.

If we consider the ground covered, we must also bear in mind that during the 1960s, shortly after the act was enacted, people in Quebec tended to treat minority communities outside Quebec as dead ducks, as René Lévesque used to say. I am sorry, but that is not the case. When I traveled across the country from sea to sea, I was struck by the energy and vitality and imagination of these minority communities.

I must also say that it is difficult and at times complicated to choose to live in a minority situation, both for anglophones in Quebec and for francophones in a province other than Quebec. We are living in a changing world where there are language pressures, throughout the world. However, I don't believe that minority communities are doomed to disappear.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Commissioner.

Thank you, Mr. Petit.

We will complete the third round with Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Fraser, I would like to go back to what Mr. Lemieux was talking about earlier. I clearly do not agree with him. One of the Supreme Court judges is a unilingual anglophone, and that is one too many. That is what must be understood. All nine judges should be bilingual. It is not complicated. They provide services to citizens. Bilingualism is not just for someone who goes to the Supreme Court. I will reiterate: It is service provided to citizens. That is very important.

On page 77, you talk about collaboration agreements. In the previous Parliament, this committee tabled a report addressing recourse to funding mechanisms. You are right. Having lived through it, I know that both the Liberals and the Conservatives have asked small organizations, which are small in size but large in terms of their activities, to do everything on a very specific timeline, otherwise they are punished. Then, the government sends the money seven months later. That continues to happen, and it is unacceptable. The report is well-known; you mention it in your document. I find that difficult for the communities.

I want to advise you of something affecting my riding. I tip my hat to Marie Lemay and others at the NCC. However, I would like to draw your attention to the case of Russell Mills, who is the chairman of the board. They chose him promising us he would become bilingual. But he is not. That tarnishes the French fact in the region, both in Gatineau and among Franco-Ontarians.

Minister Lawrence Cannon should continue to be responsible for the NCC file. I do not know if he was the one who appointed Mr. Mills, but he was the one who introduced him. At any rate, that is unacceptable, especially given that the organization has too much authority over municipalities in the region. For a member of a board made up of people from all over Canada to come and tell Gatineau or Ottawa what to do... They say it is a partnership, but in fact, they are the ones with the money and they are the ones holding the big end of the stick. In my humble opinion, that should be pointed out. Russell Mills, I am talking to you.

You talked about the Ottawa Airport and the issue of third parties. I also want to talk about the Canadian Tulip Festival, which takes place in Ottawa. The people in charge of the festival told us they are not obliged to provide services in French. However, they are an NCC third party. I am not blaming the NCC for providing tulip beds, but I am singling them out. That was an important file. It is of the outmost importance to tell these organizations that it is unacceptable for the people in charge of the Canadian Tulip Festival not to feel compelled to provide services in French, that it is good enough to take pity and provide services in French, because we are part of the landscape.

I am going to conclude by mentioning the official languages situation in the airports of Vancouver and Toronto, as regards the Olympic Games in Vancouver. Commissioner, that is an international event. Vancouver will be hosting francophones from around the world and people from different regions of Canada. If the official languages situation is unacceptable during the games, you can imagine what it is like for francophones normally. These conditions are all unacceptable.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

You have one minute left, Mr. Nadeau.

Go ahead, Mr. Fraser.

[Graham Fraser]

I thank the member for his question. I have a two-part answer. Mr. Nadeau has identified several aspects affecting the National Capital. The NCC's exemplary behaviour regarding service to the public was pointed out. The same was true for the Canadian Museum of Civilization and the National Arts Centre. Clearly, actively offering bilingual service is a reflex for these organizations. If you buy a ticket at the National Arts Centre, you are welcomed at the entrance and shown to your seat by someone who speaks both languages.

My hope is that that spirit becomes part of the National Capital culture. That is clearly not the case at present. I think that it is very important to integrate both official languages into the National Capital culture as part of cultural and social events.

You make a distinction between the Olympics and everyday life. My hope is that, with the efforts that federal institutions are currently making to meet our higher expectations, that will raise standards after the Olympics, and we will not see that followed by a setback, a kind of sigh of relief once it is over and a return to former habits.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Nadeau.

We will suspend the sitting for a few moments and then return to our study of post-secondary institutions.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chair, the Commissioner has been scheduled to discuss these issues until 10:30 a.m. I have other questions to ask him.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

You may ask them now or after the break. Mr. Fraser will have the time to—

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

No, it says on the agenda that we are discussing the Commissioner's annual report until 10:30. The other part is scheduled from 10:30 a.m. to 11:00 a.m.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

We can continue to talk about this issue until 10:30. But to be fair towards all committee members, we could have another round of questions.

Mr. Fraser will present a report on second language learning opportunities. In any case, committee members will share the remaining time.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chairman, I'm not the one who drafted the agenda. It says here that the commissioner's annual report is to be discussed between 9:00 and 10:30. I don't know if any other members want to ask questions, but speaking for myself, I would like a fourth round.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

If Mr. Godin wants another round... I simply want to make sure that we have enough time to hear Mr. Fraser's statement and then to have a good round of questions.

Mr. Godin, do you have a question? Would you like another round?

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chair...

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

One moment, please.

Mrs. Glover?

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

If we are to give Mr. Fraser 10 minutes for his statement, I suggest that we have two-minute turns.

[An hon. member]

Three minutes.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

If we have three-minute turns, we will not have enough time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

In that case, we will have three-minute turns. We will begin with the Conservative Party.

Mr. Chong.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will ask my questions in English.

In your annual report, you note that it's not certain whether the target to double the number of bilingual Canadians between the ages of 15 to 19 is still in place. I'm surprised that this didn't form part of your recommendations. In other words, it's not in your recommendations to call on the government to have that target in place. Are you no longer in pursuit of that objective? Is this something that isn't as important as some of the other recommendations you made?

[Graham Fraser]

I think it's a very important goal. I would say that the need to reach this goal was implied in my general comment that it was regrettable that clear objectives were not established for the “Roadmap”. This was one of the pre-existing objectives in the action plan. One of the problems with the objective, which was established in 2003, is that secondary education is under provincial jurisdiction. It is hard to hold the federal government to account for something that's a direct provincial responsibility. Another of our recommendations underscored the importance of the federal government in bringing new players to the table to discuss the issues involved in the “Roadmap”. Certainly, that is one of them. So I think the need to attain this goal is clearly in the report. The door is open to collaboration from the ministers responsible for francophone affairs, who passed a motion to that effect at their meeting in Quebec City.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

But we use the federal spending power to cajole provinces into meeting federal targets, as we did with the Canada Pension Plan and the Canada Health Act and many other programs of national importance.

[Graham Fraser]

When I make that point I get lectures about the current nature of federalism. So I would encourage the member to continue making that argument.