Evidence of meeting #24 for Official Languages in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ontario.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Dorothée Petit-Pas  President, Ontario French Catholic School Trustees Association
Carole Drouin  Executive Director, Ontario French Catholic School Trustees Association

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney

Good morning everyone, and congratulations on being so punctual. Welcome to this 24th session of the Standing Committee on Official Languages.

Before considering our draft report, we are pleased to be receiving one final witness, the Ontario French Catholic School Trustees Association. Welcome to the Committee. Representing the Association are Ms. Carole Drouin, Executive Director, and the President of the Association, Ms. Dorothée Petit-Pas.

Without any further ado, I will ask you to make your opening comments, which will be followed by a round of questions from Committee members.

9:05 a.m.

Dorothée Petit-Pas President, Ontario French Catholic School Trustees Association

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning, distinguished members of the Official Languages Committee. I would like to thank you for inviting the Ontario French Catholic School Trustees Association to appear before you this morning to discuss the issues and needs of Ontario French Catholic schools. We hope that our presentation and the recommendations we are tabling today will allow you to better understand our challenges and assess the effectiveness of government programming aimed at supporting the sustainable development of minority school communities all across Canada.

The AFOCSC is the political voice of school board trustees who represent Francophone Catholic voters in Ontario—in other words, rights holders under both section 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and section 93 of the Constitution Act, 1867.

The French language Catholic education system is a voluntary system primarily supported by French-speaking parents in Ontario and fully funded by the Government of Ontario. Sections 23 and 93 confer dual rights to Francophones studying in Catholic schools through their status as a minority: the right to a Catholic education and the right to an education in French. Protection of these two guarantees was conferred by Parliament of Canada and originates in legislative provisions passed by the House of Commons and confirmed over the years by a number of Supreme Court rulings.

The AFOCSC represents the largest system of Francophone schools outside Quebec. It includes eight boards and five French-language Catholic school administrations that provide services to more than 75% of Franco-Ontarians in their schools. At the present time, almost 70,000 students are currently studying in French-language Catholic schools. Our school system includes 246 elementary schools and 48 secondary schools that are distributed across the different regions of the province.

Our students achieve better scores on tests administered by the Education Quality and Accountability Office—or EQAO—than do students from English-language schools. Our 6th grade Francophone students exceed provincial standards in all areas of assessment be it in literacy, numeracy or mathematics.

Since their inception, Ontario French-language school boards have innovated in order to develop the kind of made-to-measure solutions that would allow them to achieve the success they currently enjoy.

Despite a lack of funding from the Government of Ontario for pre-school programs, our boards decided to offer full-time junior and senior kindergarten programs so that pre-schoolers would have an opportunity to master the French language and increase their chances of scholastic success. Indeed, our boards were quick to note the extent of early assimilation in preschool-aged children. There is no doubt that this problem is exacerbated when no French-language daycare services are available.

French-language school boards in Ontario have recognized the importance of early and proactive intervention by providing full-time programs for four- and five-year olds. These same boards also believe that early intervention with very young children is critical for the recruitment, integration and retention of the children of rights holders and newcomers in their schools. It is crucial for the development of our school boards that there be recognition of the need to fund daycare and early childhood education services.

Thus French-language Catholic schools are offering parents a system of education of comparable, if not superior, quality to that currently available in the English-language system.

In spite of that success, the sustainable development of French-language schools in Ontario is not a given. Too many Francophones are drifting into the English-language system because of some of the benefits it provides.

Despite all the efforts made by the French-language Catholic and public systems, only 54.4% of children of rights holders attend French-language elementary or secondary schools, according to figures from a 2006 Statistics Canada study. Therefore, more than 52,000, or 44%, of children of rights holders are attending English-language schools. French-language schools are therefore suffering annual losses in their target population to English-language schools, particularly high schools. A narrower range of course options available at secondary schools in the French-language system is certainly one of the reasons that students “drop out” linguistically and culturally, or drop out of school altogether. A little later, we will also address the importance of high-quality school facilities.

The latest information from the Ontario Ministry of Education regarding secondary school options shows that 51 options are available in the French-language system, as compared to 101 in the English-language system. Still today, four out of ten students who start out at a French-language school switch to the other system and obtain their Grade 12 diploma from an English-language school. So, it is clear that we face a serious retention problem in our schools.

If French-language Catholic boards were able to provide secondary level programming comparable to what is available in the English-language system, there would be less desire on the part of 33% of their students to leave bastions of the French-language in favour of English-language high schools. Rights holders under section 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and section 93 of the Constitution Act, 1867, make a conscious decision to send their children to the educational system of the majority, because minority schools are not easy to access, despite the superior quality of education offered in French-language Catholic schools. Unfortunately, each family lost to the English-language system represents the assimilation of an entire Francophone bloodline.

Over the years, the AFOCSC has defended the specific needs of French-language communities and succeeded in raising awareness among political decision-makers and the machinery of government of the reality and higher costs of providing French-language education to a minority community. In the last 10 years, new reference levels have been proposed with a view to calculating the actual costs of delivering quality education and, despite increased funding, the French-language education system is still not comparable to the education system of the majority.

The AFOCSC also wishes to emphasize that improving access to schools is critical: school transportation and school construction are the pillars of sustainable development and continue to be the main funding challenges. As regards accommodations, the formula used to determine funding for the construction of schools is based on a reference standard of 500 students for an efficient school. Since the majority of French-language schools in Ontario do not have that many students, the funding they are provided does not enable them to be competitive. The issue here is adequacy.

We often cite this example, which is a clear illustration of the challenges we face: a French-language school board in Ottawa that was building a new secondary school managed to secure funding of $16 million, although this amount was not enough to buy the lot and build a competitive school, even a modest one. Ironically, the English-language school board had also purchased a lot to build a new school in the same neighbourhood, but had received $32 million for its new secondary school. How will French-language schools ever be able to compete with English-language schools in terms of course offerings, sports facilities, gymnasiums, workshops, and the like, if the funding provided is insufficient to offer these features to Francophone students?

There is not always equity between the education system of the majority and that of the French-language minority in Ontario. The adequacy of programs and services for official-language minority communities must be a priority for the federal government. Our schools are not currently comparable to those of the majority—nor are our programs and services.

In closing, we believe it is time the Department of Canadian Heritage considered the status of school management in official-language minority communities. The federal government must take responsibility for ensuring the sustainable development of official-language minority communities, by making school facilities a national priority in its infrastructure program and entering into agreements with the provinces on school management, as a means of enhancing programs and services and funding daycare services for children aged 0 to 5. Indeed, all official language stakeholders should look more closely at a key area such as early childhood education, as a means of ensuring the survival of our minority communities. The Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages may want to consider setting aside resources for a Canada-wide study of the availability of daycare services to official-language minority communities.

It is our hope that the federal government will seek to ensure the adequacy of facilities, programs and services, in order to guarantee the sustainable development of French-language communities in Ontario. The current government's commitment should also be reflected in the Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality. French-language education is an integral part of our vision as a Franco-Ontarian community and is closely linked to our survival. Schools are the very core of our institutional and community vitality. They must receive adequate support to ensure the long-term vitality of official-language communities all across the country.

I hope that our comments have convinced you of the importance of our educational project and that you now have a better understanding of the issues associated with developing French-language Catholic education in Ontario. In closing, I invite you to seriously consider the 13 recommendations provided in our brief. Carole and I will be very pleased to provide any clarifications, should you have questions.

If we want to continue to improve the status of French-language communities in Ontario, now is the time to act, to capitalize on the investments that have already been made, and avoid a further erosion of a system which is now at a crossroads.

On behalf of the members of the Ontario French Catholic School Trustees Association, I want to thank you for your kind attention.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney

Thank you, Ms. Petit-Pas for sharing your concerns with us. I also want to commend you for the scholastic success achieved by the young people who attend your schools. That is terrific.

Ms. Zarac, please.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Lise Zarac Liberal LaSalle—Émard, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning, Ms. Petit-Pas and Ms. Drouin. In the first recommendation of the document you provided to the Standing Committee on Official Languages, you ask that there be equitable allocations of funding for junior and senior kindergarten programs. You also mentioned that in your presentation today.

How do you explain that financial imbalance? And, what would equal treatment mean, as far as you are concerned?

9:20 a.m.

Carole Drouin Executive Director, Ontario French Catholic School Trustees Association

I would just like to point out that the recommendations in questions are in Appendix B of our brief. We submitted these recommendations to the Minister of Education. In fact, the Association presents an annual brief to the Minister of Education to make her aware of funding gaps affecting French-language Catholic schools.

As noted in the document we provided this morning, our school boards offer full-time junior and senior kindergarten programs, although they are only funded for half-time delivery. We are therefore asking the government to provide complete funding, given the critical need to teach French to pre-school aged children in order to ensure their success in school.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Lise Zarac Liberal LaSalle—Émard, QC

I imagine you are referring to the needs not only of the children, but of the parents as well. When you are working, it is not easy to organize your life when your children are only going to school half the time.

9:20 a.m.

President, Ontario French Catholic School Trustees Association

Dorothée Petit-Pas

At our board, children are in school full time, but the public funding we receive is only adequate for half-time programs.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Lise Zarac Liberal LaSalle—Émard, QC

So, you are the ones bearing the additional costs.

9:20 a.m.

Executive Director, Ontario French Catholic School Trustees Association

9:20 a.m.

President, Ontario French Catholic School Trustees Association

Dorothée Petit-Pas

We take money from other budget envelopes to ensure that children are able to attend school full time, five days a week.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Lise Zarac Liberal LaSalle—Émard, QC

How many Francophone Catholic school boards are there in Ontario?

9:20 a.m.

President, Ontario French Catholic School Trustees Association

Dorothée Petit-Pas

There are eight.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Lise Zarac Liberal LaSalle—Émard, QC

How many public school boards are there?

9:20 a.m.

President, Ontario French Catholic School Trustees Association

Dorothée Petit-Pas

There are four.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Lise Zarac Liberal LaSalle—Émard, QC

Is that adequate to meet demand? You say that you have only 54% of the people you could be serving—that you are only serving 50% of your target clientele.

9:20 a.m.

Executive Director, Ontario French Catholic School Trustees Association

Carole Drouin

If I understand your question, you are asking whether the governance structure in Ontario is adequate to meet that demand, if all the children of rights holders were to attend our schools. The answer is no. The current structure and the jurisdiction of our French-language school boards would have to be reviewed. As you know, the population is concentrated in urban areas. There would be a need to adjust the territory covered by our boards, and probably add some.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Lise Zarac Liberal LaSalle—Émard, QC

Why are you only serving 54% of your target population? What are the benefits offered by English-speaking school boards? Is that the reason why you are not serving the entire target population?

9:20 a.m.

President, Ontario French Catholic School Trustees Association

Dorothée Petit-Pas

There are several reason. First of all, there is the question of transportation. Our schools are very far away and that is a major problem for parents. Also, the options we can provide at the secondary level are not adequate. We are starting to set up daycare centres adjacent to our high schools, which allows us to attract more students.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Lise Zarac Liberal LaSalle—Émard, QC

Should we take from that that there are not enough schools?

9:20 a.m.

President, Ontario French Catholic School Trustees Association

Dorothée Petit-Pas

Yes, exactly.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Lise Zarac Liberal LaSalle—Émard, QC

Thank you.

You mentioned that you have 246 primary and 48 secondary schools. The secondary schools are often larger, but is there really an imbalance? Is that where you are losing students, and why is that happening?

9:20 a.m.

President, Ontario French Catholic School Trustees Association

Dorothée Petit-Pas

As we mentioned in our report, we are losing students because certain programs are not offered in our secondary schools. Students wanting to access those programs cannot do it in our schools.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Lise Zarac Liberal LaSalle—Émard, QC

Ms. Petit-Pas, why don't you offer them? Is it out of a lack of funding?

9:20 a.m.

Executive Director, Ontario French Catholic School Trustees Association

Carole Drouin

In terms of the diversity of course options, the French-speaking schools offer about half the courses that are available in English schools. Dorothée also mentioned the fact that the schools tend to be far away. Our elementary schools already serve large areas, but when they reach the secondary level, students may have to spend an hour getting to school and another hour going back home. Parents really have to be convinced of the benefit in order to persuade their children to go to French-language schools, even though they do not offer all the courses they may want to take.

With respect to school facilities, we provided a specific example earlier. In the Ottawa area, there are two schools in the same neighbourhood. The English-speaking secondary school has a triple gymnasium, whereas the French-speaking secondary school can only afford a half-gymnasium, because of its limited funding, which is allocated based on the number of students. We need additional assistance, and federal infrastructure program funding in order to be in a position to provide facilities comparable to those available in English schools. That really is part of the problem.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney

Thank you very much. We will move on now to Mr. Nadeau.