Official Languages Committee on Nov. 19th, 2009

[Yves Duguay]

I can tell you that our management committee is entirely bilingual.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Gravelle.

We'll now go to Ms. Zarac.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning, Mr. Duguay. Security, of course, is your first duty at CATSA. However, if you aren't able to communicate, security may not be very effective. So language is very important. I congratulate you on your employee excellence program. You say that only half of the 350 employees are bilingual. However, the committee's objective is to ensure that people who come to attend the Olympic Games can get answers in their language. The fact that only half of the 350 employees are bilingual is a bit troubling. First, I wonder whether that's enough, but what do you say about other access points such as Ottawa and Toronto, for example? Has the number of bilingual persons there increased as well?

[Yves Duguay]

Thank you for the question. Last year, we spent a lot of time with our main contractors. The issue of the discussion was always the same: the Olympic Games are a golden opportunity for us to showcase our services, to show what we can do. That's also the case for the service contractors. These are independent companies that are trying to get other contracts, of course. However, one of the main objectives is to ensure that people are well received, and that starts with official languages.

You ask me whether 175 of the 350 employees is an adequate percentage. You have to take into account what we're going to do, the way we want to provide the service. This is naturally subject to people following normal operating procedures, which was not the case for Mr. Nadeau, for example.

There will be oversight. We'll be on site ourselves. Our employees will conduct enhanced oversight of operations to ensure that normal operating procedures are well applied by service contractors. I'll be on site as well for most of the Olympic Games. I'm going to talk to employees to make them understand how great an opportunity it is for them to work at these Olympic Games. We don't often get the chance to showcase ourselves and take full advantage of that. We have to encourage employee commitment. Our service contractors are very committed right now. They are actively recruiting staff with a view to increasingly hiring bilingual people.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

You didn't answer the second part of my question, whether the number of bilingual employees at other screening posts has been increased?

[Yves Duguay]

In the transit areas, for example, people will be travelling to Vancouver... In Montreal, I don't have the percentage, but it's more than 90%. So there's no problem.

In Ottawa, a lot of bilingual people have been hired, as well as in Toronto. Yesterday we were talking with the Garda people who have approached the francophone communities in Toronto to increase the recruitment rate. Aeroguard in Vancouver has done an excellent job recruiting people. So we haven't yet reached the target number of people, but a considerable effort has been made to improve this ability to offer bilingual service.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

We on the committee also hope that those efforts will continue even after the Olympic Games.

You said that you had a team that was auditing the main airports. Could you name those airports and tell me how often those audits are being done?

[Yves Duguay]

Transport Canada has divided the airports into three groups: the first includes the main airports, that is to say Halifax, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Winnipeg, Calgary, Edmonton and Vancouver. We have a permanent presence at those airports. We have people who conduct these audits, this oversight of operations, on a daily basis. These people also have to cover the airports of the region where they work, such as the category 2 airports, whether it be the Victoria Airport or the one in Quebec City.

Our future plan is to review our regional structure in order to start deploying people to the smaller airports—it's relative—category 2 airports, such as those in Victoria, Kelowna, Quebec City, Moncton and Saint John probably. We'll eventually have an activity oversight model with a frequency that will vary with the staff at our disposal.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

I know a survey has been conducted. Could we have the results of the survey that CATSA conducted last year?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Will the survey be available soon, Mr. Duguay?

[Yves Duguay]

Yes, I'm told it will be available soon.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Ms. Zarac.

We're going to continue with Mr. Petit.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning, Mr. Duguay.

I would like to address the security aspect, which you have focused on since 2001; that is to say that a certain form of so-called internal control has been established. That means that, when someone travels within Canada, he or she must necessarily go through a screening post, which was not previously the case. There was only customs when entering the country or U.S. customs when leaving Canada to enter the United States. So this is a very significant change.

I spoke with a Liberal MP from Vancouver, Mr. Dosanjh, who took part in a feature on Radio-Canada—I don't know whether you saw it—showing a person arriving in Vancouver from India. That person spoke only Hindi and did not speak English. That person will be spoken to in Hindi at the airport and then function in Hindi in Vancouver.

A question arises about what currently exists. We wouldn't want the work you're trying to do—and I think it's entirely to your credit that you're making an effort to have bilingual people—to be limited solely to Vancouver and that there are no other results afterwards. As you can see, we are demanding of you.

We have had occasion to meet with Canadian Forces representatives three times. They told us what kind of textbooks they use, how they provide the courses and so on. I know that your company isn't a school, but how do you go about getting the necessary bilingual staff to respond to all needs—because the airports have to be able to meet your own standards? What do you offer your staff? Do you have a school, a place where they can learn? What kind of textbooks do you use? Is “Hello, Bonjour” all you ask them to know? I hope not.

What do you currently have to offer those people? What tools do your contractors have? Are you aware of that?

[Yves Duguay]

First, I'd like to draw a distinction between the military model and ours. We operate on a contract basis. These people are not our employees. This is a labour relations matter. We're trying not to interfere in the supervision and management of those resources.

We do have schools, training centres. We offer training in French and English. However, we don't offer second-language training, unless it's for our own employees. They have access to second-language training, on an individual basis or in classes. For our employers, there are contractual requirements concerning the staffing of bilingual positions.

As for the active offer you're referring to, we've prepared a training module that is being used right now. Every employee will have to take that training module before the Olympic Games. This is not a language course, but it is a timely reminder to underscore our obligation regarding active offer and follow-up.

Of course—you've no doubt noticed the same thing—I see, when we get the “Hello, Bonjour” and start speaking French, that people tend to freeze on the spot. Their reflex is to go find the co-worker who speaks French because there is one who speaks French at the screening points. It's this process, which we talked about earlier, that we're trying to remind people of. We remind them what must be done.

I don't know whether that answers your question.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

You say you offer your employees courses. Where is that? What is it? Do you offer them a lot of hours or is it just to provide them with an hour of courses, then to tell them that they're bilingual, that they can say “yes”, “no”, “toaster”, and that's it. That's not what I want. What kind of courses are you giving them? Can you describe them to us?

[Yves Duguay]

We could give you more details on language training at CATSA. It's made on a commitment basis; it's nearly a contract. If employees are not bilingual, they make a commitment, by occupying the position, to become bilingual within a two-year period. We sit down with them and tell them that, to get to that point, they will have to take a certain type of training. We're doing that at CATSA, but we're not doing it with contract employees.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Do you have a course plan? Could you provide it to us? Is it confidential? I suppose not.

[Yves Duguay]

No, it's not confidential, but it is very individualized training. It's based on the type of position occupied and the person's ability. The type of training varies.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

One thing is certain: if you want to forward your information to us on training programs for your employees, we will send it to committee members. Thank you.

Now we'll finish the third round with Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Duguay, I'm very happy that you've come this morning. It would have been good for your CEO to be here as well. I understand that this morning you're in charge of defending people who make decisions. It's not you who make the decisions at the outset; it's your bosses. You are responsible for the files. However, if we can't meet the leadership, the one who's at the top, to tell him what we think, at some point the orders you receive... I'm not always sure of the will to improve things, and I'm going to tell you why.

You said certain things earlier. For example, on September 11, 2001—that's eight years ago—measures were put in place. I understand, but that was eight years ago. If it takes your organization, CATSA, eight years to understand that you have an obligation... Third parties also have an obligation, as you said earlier. Don't come and tell us that, because they are third parties, it may be comprehensible that they are not too good in French and that some freeze when French is spoken to them. That's not normal.

When you want a doctor at a hospital or a medical board, you make sure he has his documents, his papers attesting to his medical training. If you want people in bilingual positions, they have to be bilingual. If they freeze or are surprised to learn that there are people speaking French in Canada—some are learning that right now—that's not very reassuring. I want you to know that. You're not responsible for the situation, but some people will have to wake up at some point to something else than just meeting obligations for the sake of meeting obligations. You provide a service to a given clientele; that's a major factor.

Another aspect is very important for me. The Olympic Games are coming up, as we said earlier, and you mentioned that as well. After the games, will efforts continue to ensure that we exceed the ratio of one bilingual employee to 24 employees in Ottawa? Fifteen percent of the population of Ottawa is francophone; 97% of the population of Gatineau is as well. Put the two together, and you're nearing a francophone population of 26% or 27% in the greater region served by the Macdonald-Cartier Airport.

Couldn't you try to get closer to 25%? For 24 people, that means how many bilingual persons? That means five or six persons at least who should necessarily be on the floor. You've just told me that it takes at least one because sometimes there are 10. You understand what I mean. This is the kind of recommendation we're submitting to you.

When we read the document I have here, the report of the Commissioner of Official Languages, although I don't exactly know the number of departments, Crown corporations and agencies there are in Canada—we could get the figures—one thing is clear: the three offenders in order are Air Canada, Canada Post and CATSA. There are also definitely 40, 50 or 60 of these organizations.

You tell me you have training schools. I hope the courses there are mandatory. Because if it's only on a voluntary basis, we're seeing the result. Tell us in concrete terms: what is your plan to ensure that, when a Gravelle, a Guay, a Zarac, a Rodriguez, our friend D'Amours, a Boucher, a Petit or a Chong, who speaks very good French, appears at one of your service posts, they'll immediately receive service in French? If you can't tell me that immediately, could you send us your action plan so that compliance with the Official Languages Act is a reality after the Vancouver Games? I'm listening.

[Yves Duguay]

Above all, I want to pass on the regrets of Mr. McGarr, our president, who had to meet with the Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities this morning. That's why he is not here with you this morning. Mr. McGarr is completely bilingual. With regard to governance, I must tell you that I couldn't be working for a better president who is setting the tone at the top. There's absolutely no problem in that regard.

You referred to the performance level. You raised a very good point, a very good idea, which is the ability to identify people in order to know whether they are really bilingual. In the next call for tenders, as I mentioned, we will have requirements so that our contractors, service contractors, can test the language ability of the people they're going to hire. We have some work to do in that area, I admit.

With respect to the statistics, I don't have a thorough knowledge of the sampling method of the Commissioner of Official Languages. I would be more than happy to share mine with you. As I said, my sampling comprises 20,000 samples. I don't know what the sampling of the Commissioner of Official Languages is. On this basis of 20,000 samples, I can say that it is a fairly accurate representation. I have a compliance rate of 94%, and I'm very proud of that. I spoke to the Commissioner of Official Languages on two occasions so that we could further discuss our sampling method, the tests and the oversight of our operations, and so that we could share this kind of information, which would be beneficial to both parties.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Nadeau.

The fourth round begins with Ms. Boucher, whose name has been set down. There are others, and I invite them to do so.

We're going to kick off with you, Mrs. Boucher.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Good morning, sir. We seem to be whining, but we simply want to ensure that the official languages are respected. We know that you're doing a fairly extensive job these days.

Earlier you said that your employees were learning an official language on a voluntary basis. When there are resistors who absolutely don't want to learn English or French, are there any consequences for those employees or are they free to make their own decision without any problem? Do you ever have people who resist learning the second language, and are there any consequences?