Official Languages Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2009

[Marie-France Kenny]

It worked well at one point, 40 years ago. And we've been making the same observations over the past 40 years.

With regard to governance, as you said, it's hard for the minister to tell his peers how to do things and to ask them to be accountable. A peer is talking to a peer. Whereas if that responsibility were handed over to a supreme authority—that's why we're suggesting the Privy Council Office—it would have the power to present what has to be done with regard to official languages, to establish objectives for each of the departments, Crown corporations and institutions, and to compel accountability in those areas at the end of the year.

[Suzanne Bossé, Director General, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada]

I'd simply like to cite a brief and very concrete example of the importance of having an authority that supervises the situation and coordinates everything horizontally.

Let's talk, for example, about the definition of a francophone. On October 15, there was a meeting of the Citizenship and Immigration Canada-Francophone Minority Communities Steering Committee. The Official Languages Secretariat did some research at the committee's request to determine what the definition of the term “francophone” was in each of the departments. The government does not operate on the basis of one single definition of what a francophone is. And the differences among the departments are quite significant.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you.

Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Welcome, Ms. Kenny and Ms. Bossé. I also want to congratulate you on your report.

This year, we are marking the 40th anniversary of the Official Languages Act. It's a celebration that I would never have wanted to attend because we're still talking about it 40 years later. When you celebrate, it's because it's a joyful occasion. We're celebrating, but we receive reports like yours, or when we hear that the RCMP has stopped someone on the road who is entitled to be served in French, although, 10 kilometers from there, the act doesn't protect the person they have stopped, even though they're in front of a French-language school. I remember some time ago, when we fought in New Brunswick for the RCMP—regardless of whether the person was in Fredericton, Moncton or Caraquet; we're a bilingual province and the only bilingual province in Canada—to be subject to the act. If the RCMP decided to proceed in English, that was fine. We had to go to court, and we had to face the three departments, Canadian Heritage, the Department of Justice and Treasury Board. Everyone is involved but there is no conductor.

Lastly, we had to go to court, then to appellate court, and we won our case. That occurred 40 years after the Official Languages Act was introduced and in a country that says it is bilingual and in a province that says it's bilingual. We weren't fighting because the members of the RCMP only spoke French and didn't want to speak English.

We passed Bill S-3, which made Part VII of the act executory. What do you think of that? Do you think we've made progress since that act came into force, or has there been no change?

[Marie-France Kenny]

As I said earlier, there has been some progress. The institutions are very poorly equipped. I'll give you a concrete example: now there's a program to promote the vitality of the communities. Money is granted to facilitate various initiatives. Last year, money was granted to an anglophone organization so that it could translate its website. I wanted to know whether that organization offered services in French. The answer was no. I asked how a bilingual website would contribute to the vitality of my community if I couldn't receive any services in French. The people didn't understand. What was a positive measure was not clearly defined. It's still very vague. There are some great success stories, particularly in the departments that were targeted at the time. However, there's increasing talk of problems. There has been some progress, but it isn't enough.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

We're still talking about progress. We can talk about it for another 40 years because it's only progress, baby steps.

The government is responsible for consulting the public. Are you being consulted? Is the public being consulted.

[Marie-France Kenny]

No. We have been consulted sporadically, occasionally. We don't feel consulted. Sometimes we're consulted, but we're not listened to.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Can you explain how you should be consulted?

What should the government do to comply with the act? You should be consulted under the act.

[Marie-France Kenny]

If a department or Crown corporation wants to improve Part VII of the act and has a duty to do so in order to promote the vitality of the linguistic communities, shouldn't that department or Crown corporation consult the main parties involved to determine what they need in order to grow and develop and ensure that they work with those minorities to find ways of doing things? That's one concrete way—

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Give me some examples of situations in which the public has not been consulted.

[Marie-France Kenny]

I'm trying to think of an example.

[Suzanne Bossé]

I think that Bernard Lord's consultation was an example of consultation. What action was given to it?

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

It was done in camera in hotels in Toronto. Is that what we're talking about?

[Suzanne Bossé]

The communities had a chance to prepare and present briefs. Recommendations were made by Mr. Lord.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I remember that some communities wanted to attend the consultations and were not heard.

[Suzanne Bossé]

That's possible.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Yes, the committee was given that news.

[Marie-France Kenny]

The meetings were held in camera. I asked to be heard at the time, but I wasn't invited to appear.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Were you able to appear?

[Marie-France Kenny]

No, but I sent a letter.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

It was just said that didn't happen. Did it actually happen?

[Marie-France Kenny]

It was in camera.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

However, you asked to appear and were denied.

[Marie-France Kenny]

At the time, a number of persons asked to be registered, but I didn't belong to a francophone network. I was absent for a year. No, I wasn't consulted. However, I was invited to send a letter and a document, which I did. According to the Lord Report, we were consulted. Mr. Lord made recommendations that were not considered.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

They weren't considered; they weren't complied with.