Official Languages Committee on March 10th, 2009

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

I'm referring to the program that concerns researchers only in business programs.

[François Charbonneau]

That's a specific issue. The decision was made to increase the funding allocated to the granting agencies such as the SSHRC. I don't want to talk nonsense, but I think priority will be given to research.

I would find it hard to make a direct connection with the issue of minority francophones. Certainly, from the moment you decide on specific topics, you give the research an orientation, which raises other considerations, because that isn't the only research that's important in understanding the Canadian reality and our international competitiveness. Moreover, Canada has expertise in the field of linguistic minorities, particularly in research. Our researchers give international conferences on the subject.

In deciding that this isn't a priority for Canada and that it's only business, we're not developing our major strengths. Francophones aren't the only ones considering this issue; some anglophones are also experts on the issue of minority francophones. I'm thinking of Michael Behiels, of the University of Ottawa, who has written an extraordinary book on francophone rights. He's an anglophone. His research should be promoted just as much as other research focusing directly on business.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Ms. Zarac.

Now we'll continue with Mr. Galipeau.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

Good morning, Mr. Charbonneau. Thank you for coming. Don't go thinking that I'll be taking too much time to ask my question. You'll have all the time you need to answer it. My question is for Mr. Charbonneau first, but Mr. Pelletier could enlighten us as well, if he wants.

Mr. Charbonneau, could you give us some indication of the success the institutions you represent are having in retaining minority francophone students? We know that English has a very real power of attraction. I'd like to know whether you have any figures on minority francophone students who choose to pursue their university education in French.

Then I'll have a second question to ask you.

[François Charbonneau]

I don't have the specific figure you're expecting. The theme of rights holders no longer exists at the university level. I don't have the figures on that subject. Perhaps the people from... No, you don't have them either.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

That seems to me to be quite an important statistic for assessing the institutions' success. Would it be possible to send that information to the clerk?

[François Charbonneau]

That's obviously a statistical challenge, but I agree it would be important to have the answer to that question.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

If you can't assess the situation quantitatively, can you do so qualitatively?

Apart from the proximity of an institution serving the French-speaking population, what factors influence language minority youths who have to choose a college or university? What strategies have been developed by French-language universities to ensure they retain students from their community?

[François Charbonneau]

That's an excellent question. In all the studies on factors that may attract students, the language question is obvious. It may prove difficult to study in one's second language. Students may have perfect mastery of another language without being comfortable enough to study a specific subject in it. There are many other factors, such as the quality of instruction, the supply of courses and the opportunity to take a specific program. We know that some programs are offered only at certain university institutions. The prestige of the institution often plays an important role, as does the institution's proximity and educational costs.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

You will have noticed today that people on both sides of the table share the same concern on this point. We see the same thing all across Canada, but it's quite particular here in Ottawa. There are 120,000 francophones in Ottawa. Half of them are in exogamous unions and therefore speak French only when they speak to each other. Furthermore, 180,000 anglophones can't speak French. Anglophones are being trained so that they can speak French and ultimately become francophiles. Like others on both sides of the table, I'm concerned about the fact that many francophones feel beaten down by their status as minority francophones, to the point where they are less motivated than anglophones to continue their training in French.

The questions I asked you about strategies are relevant. I would like you to be able to answer them in your next appearance before our committee.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Galipeau.

We'll continue with Mr. Nadeau.

But first I would like to point out that Statistics Canada may be able to provide some of the figures requested. We should check with them.

We have a new member of our committee this morning. Ms. Bourgeois, go ahead, please.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Good morning, gentlemen.

As you both noted, education is an area of provincial jurisdiction. You seem to agree on the fact that, with respect to investment, it is hard to specify amounts, that the budgets for instruction in one language are combined with those of the provinces. That seems to be an extremely significant difficulty.

My first question is for Mr. Pelletier.

I imagine that, in past years, the Council of Ministers of Education established action plans to promote English or French, but especially French in the other provinces. My impression is that Quebec attaches more importance to learning English than the other provinces attach to learning French.

Am I mistaken?

[Jean-Gilles Pelletier]

The difference between what Quebec invests in the second language and what the other provinces invest in the same field is not enormous.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

All right. That's what I wanted to know. The fact remains that action plans are designed before the investment is made. Would it be possible for you to submit the action plans from past years to the committee?

[Jean-Gilles Pelletier]

I would like to recall, for those who can hear us, that administration of the MOU is what CMEC does. It is on behalf of all the provinces and territories that CMEC signs the MOU with the federal government. Once again, we're talking about a relatively small amount. Out of the $100 billion invested, this is an amount of $258 million a year. The provinces and territories each have an action plan that states their strategic priorities with respect to education, whether it be at the elementary, secondary or postsecondary level, in early childhood or continuing education. The action plans prepared as part of CMEC's work are all available. They are part of the bilateral agreements that the provinces and territories enter into with the federal government under the MOU. These agreements are all available on the Internet.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Mr. Pelletier, I'm asking you for the action plans because they are generally accompanied by an evaluation. For example, you mentioned an immersion program that you manage, that is to say a student exchange program that takes place during the summer. Did I understand correctly?

[Jean-Gilles Pelletier]

I'm going to draw a distinction in an attempt to clarify the situation.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Yes.

[Jean-Gilles Pelletier]

CMEC manages, on behalf of all the provinces and territories, four national programs which are outside the bilateral agreements as such.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

All right.

[Jean-Gilles Pelletier]

Those agreements, which represent $228 million, are intended for the provinces and territories. Of that amount, $30 million is allocated to management of the national programs Explore, Odyssey, Accent and Destination Clic. That enables individual learning, whether it be monitors or scholarships.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

All right.

[Jean-Gilles Pelletier]

These two things are a bit different. The $228 million is attached to the bilateral agreements. Under those agreements, every province and territory receives financial support from the federal government that must be matched in order to meet certain objectives.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

You've been saying for some time now that a lot of money is being allocated to various programs, that the provinces are being helped and so on, but I want to ensure that the money winds up in the right place. The action plans include obligations of result, and the programs are also necessarily results-based. One may wonder, for example, whether the immersion program has achieved its goal in past years and whether it's still worth the trouble to invest funding in it.

You also talked about a new protocol between the federal government and the provinces. I would like to know whether, to your knowledge, the provinces will be able to opt out. Education is a provincial jurisdiction. You'll understand that Quebec stands by that.