Official Languages Committee on May 4th, 2010

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

More and more so. So you mustn't be proud of the government, which is still reluctant to require that Supreme Court judges be bilingual in order to understand both languages in a bilingual country?

Is the government still embarrassed to engage in a debate such as this one we're holding here today? This is a debate in which it is still dividing Canadians far more than bringing them together. We see it in the press across Canada—in 10 newspapers yesterday and in five papers today. We also see the extent to which francophone MPs and senators are reluctant to speak out and request services in their language.

[Ibrahima Diallo]

Thank you, Mr. Godin. I know it was you who introduced the bill. We spoke out as representatives of the Société franco-manitobaine on the question.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Were you in favour of it?

[Ibrahima Diallo]

We're in favour of having bilingual judges on the Supreme Court. We said so and we said it in all the forums offered to us.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Wouldn't that be sending a signal? Ms. Bossé said earlier that the problem is directly related to services at the grassroots level. Wouldn't that be sending a message from the top? It might also be good for Quebec anglophones who say they can also stay home and be served in both languages as well as anywhere in the country.

I wasn't here last week and I missed a meeting—it seems it was the best meeting—during which the committee talked about immigration. Some people on the government side even said they were sorry I wasn't here.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

It was said that the francophonie or immigration—I think it's that—started in Moncton and ended in Sault Ste. Marie. So I wondered what the situation was in Saint-Boniface, Winnipeg, Vancouver, Edmonton, in Alberta, and all those regions—we can name them; there's a francophone community everywhere. And someone thinks it stops in Sault Ste. Marie.

I'd like to hear your opinion on that subject. How do you feel in Manitoba and in Saint-Boniface?

[Ibrahima Diallo]

Talking about that, I believe I partly answered John Weston's question. In our minds, the francophonie is here to stay.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I agree with you.

[Ibrahima Diallo]

The francophone communities and their local allies have to... There are also anglophones who speak French. They are allies. I believe that a symbol as powerful as the Supreme Court should reflect that linguistic duality.

Anglophones are increasingly learning French. There is a law school at the University of Manitoba, for example. Those people came to see us, at the Collège universitaire, so we could agree that law courses would be given in French at the University of Manitoba. So that means that, there too, people see the importance of speaking both languages. That was unthinkable two or three years ago. It's starting to be done.

They say that unilingual individuals would be excluded from the Supreme Court. That might be the case in the immediate future, but you have to consider that more and more people will eventually learn French. In that perspective, we can say that, in the long term, that could make a real difference. People could speak both languages.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I think Ms. Bossé also wants to say something.

[Suzanne Bossé]

We talked about concerns over assimilation and the way to bring francophones and francophiles closer together. On that point, I don't know when the last campaign was conducted to promote linguistic duality or to increase people's awareness of pride in our language. I didn't see any, but it would definitely be very important. The fact remains that that's part of the mandate of some of our institutions.

I might not have been clear enough, Ms. Glover, when I mentioned the $10 million. It was an increase in investments at CIC. The $20 million was indeed a recurring item under the action plan, and there was an additional $10 million, but it was for New Brunswick.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chairman, to be fair, perhaps we could give one minute to Ms. Martin-Laforge, who wants to make some comments.

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge]

I think it's important to say this here; we've said it before at this committee and we will continue to say it from every rooftop. We are not afraid of losing English in Quebec. It's not a question of language. It's a question of community, and so, the institutions to support the community.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you for that clarification.

We have time to do a third round.

We'll start with Mr. Bélanger.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

As I've previously said in this committee, in view of its dominant presence in North America, English is not threatened in Quebec: it's the anglophone community.

Having visited some small anglophone villages in Quebec, in Gaspé, among other places, I know that's not always obvious. Those communities do not have access to all the services, which is not the case in Montreal. I know it's at times awkward to compare the anglophone community in Quebec with the francophone communities in the other provinces, but a certain comparison is valid. In eastern Ontario, where I live, you can live in French. We have all our institutions. It took time to get them, I agree. Quebec's anglophone community did not have to spend as much time fighting to get its own. However, we now have our own. In the villages in northern Ontario, however, and across the country, the francophone community does not have access to those basic services. The issue of school boards across the country is a recent one. There are day care and early childhood centres everywhere. They are essential to the vitality of our communities. I wanted to make that little correction.

Going back to the fact that we want a target of 4.4% rather than 2%, I believe that's fundamental. The francophone population is currently declining relative to total population. There is less francophone immigration than francophone population. That was my first question, and I'm coming back to it. What I'm hearing is wishful thinking. These aren't concrete actions that would make it possible to double that figure and even more in order to reach equality. If it takes 15 years to achieve 4.4%, that means that, in the meantime, we'll have lagged. We'll have fallen back, lost ground. Pardon me, but I don't think that's good enough. It's not enough. That's why I would implore the communities to review this 15-year strategic plan. I would really like to see it, incidentally. Is it available?

[Lucie Lecomte, Committee Researcher]

Yes, it was distributed in the last mailing.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you. I'll make sure I go over it with a fine tooth comb.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

I note that it was distributed in the last mailing, Mr. Bélanger.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

All right.

How are we going to go about increasing the number of immigrants—I'm not talking about refugees—by more than twice the current number over the next five years? This is a population that we can target, and we can make arrangements to provide a suitable welcome and integrate them into our communities.

What would it take in terms of financial resources from the federal government to do that? That's the question.

In Quebec, I'm very cognizant of what Madame Martin-Laforge said: it's not the language that's threatened, but the communities.

What is needed to protect the communities there in terms of numbers or in terms of investments as well? That's the purpose of our ongoing study: to recommend to the government that they make available to the communities the necessary tools to do what is needed.

[Suzanne Bossé]

To answer your question, I don't have any figures on the investments that would be necessary. However, I would be very pleased for us to work with the committee to establish those figures.

First, there will definitely have to be increased investment in promotion. We mentioned that in our presentation earlier. There is not even a francophone office to prepare immigrants for departure and arrival in Canada, apart from that of Canada's embassy in Paris. There aren't any for francophone countries. We mentioned that earlier. I think that would be a good starting point.

In addition, the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade could definitely be more active. Some Canadian embassies took part in the last round of Destination Canada. We now hope that will produce results. We're working very closely with the Canadian embassy in Paris. Destination Canada is a good program. However, we have to go further.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

When you mention the Canadian embassy in Paris, do you mean that everyone has access there or just the French? There are francophones everywhere else, not just in France.

[Suzanne Bossé]

I agree with you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Bélanger.

We'll continue with Mr. Généreux, if he is in agreement.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

It's my turn? Mr. Chairman, based on my document, I was sure we had only three rounds.