Official Languages Committee on June 3rd, 2010

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

There has also been discussion of recommendations with respect to assigning percentages.

[Julie Boyer]

Metropolis Project researchers are looking less at recruitment and how to attract immigrants than at the need to retain them. The fact is that much of the research shows that there is secondary immigration to Quebec or assimilation. So, they are addressing a lot of these issues, particularly how to retain them.

Which stakeholders can play a role in that area? And what do immigrants feel are the programs that can support them best in terms of their integration?

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Ms. Zarac.

Ms. Boucher, please.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to our committee. This has been a very interesting discussion. It is especially interesting to be studying immigration, because we learn something new every day.

As Mr. D'Amours was saying, we had an opportunity this week to visit a school. It gave us a chance to get out of our bubble. We saw things differently, and heard from parents and students. As I am sure you realize, young people can more easily become integrated than people who are a little older.

Earlier, there was quite a lot of discussion about credential recognition. I am not very comfortable with acronyms, but I would like to read one of the SANB's recommendations:

Introduce nation-wide standardization to simplify foreign credential recognition. At present, diplomas are not always recognized from one province to another; as well, each province is responsible for establishing connections with various countries to determine equivalencies, a highly complex and painstaking process.

Basically, recognition of foreign diplomas is a provincial government responsibility. That is unfortunate, and we are anxious to do our share, but each government and each province has its own criteria when it comes to recognizing foreign diplomas. For example, in recent years, Quebec has signed agreements with France for the recognition of certain diplomas and professional credentials, such as for midwives and doctors. That shows that this is something a provincial government can do.

Could you explain how you perceive the federal government's role in initiatives of this kind?

[Jean-Marie Nadeau]

I am going to ask Anne-Lise to answer.

[Anne-Lise Blin]

The agreement signed by France and Quebec is a very valuable one. However, the fact that every individual province has to do this on its own doesn't make things any easier, because that only concerns Francophones… It means that the provinces have to approach all the Francophone countries, and this is not necessarily something that a provincial government is interested in doing. Foreign credential recognition is something that has to be negotiated with French-speaking countries.

At the same time, if there were nation-wide standardization with respect to foreign credential recognition, if only in Canada, the task would be much easier for each province.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Well, when we try to introduce standardization, often we are told that we are interfering in the provinces' jurisdiction. So we have to be careful.

[Anne-Lise Blin]

Yes, I understand.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

The reality we saw and felt when we visited the school on Tuesday was that this goes well beyond what governments can do. It goes beyond what we are talking about here. To a very large extent, integration occurs through contact with human beings and the community.

[Anne-Lise Blin]

Yes, absolutely.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

The question I asked on Tuesday was whether they maintain ongoing contact with Francophone communities. When immigrants come to Canada from Africa, Turkey, Colombia or Salvador, is there frequent contact between them and your organizations, so that they see what the Francophone community is all about? And is that the case with every organization?

[Anne-Lise Blin]

Yes, it is. There are a number of organizations in New Brunswick that handle community integration. We recognize that one of the main reasons for the successful integration of immigrants there is the warm welcome they receive from Acadians and from the people of New Brunswick. Welcoming them into the community is really very important. Yes, they have to find a job. Without employment, they won't be able to stay, but even with a job, if that community support is not there, people will leave anyway.

Each organization focuses extensively on community integration. That is why we are in the process of developing more organizations. Also, through my position, we will be trying to coordinate our activities, so that we can talk about best practices and achieve more consistency across the province.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I have another question. I am going to talk mainly about New Brunswick, because it's the province I am most familiar with, along with Quebec.

Are there a lot of young immigrants in your province, or are you seeing that it is primarily the parents who are coming to New Brunswick first?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

There is not much time left, Ms. Boucher.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

In school, we often see that young people are a lot better able to become integrated. In fact, the young people reverse roles with the parents, to a certain extent, because the parents have trouble adjusting. Are you seeing the same thing in New Brunswick?

[Jean-Marie Nadeau]

I don't have any statistics, but there is no doubt we are seeing the same sort of thing. I think it's universal. The Société de l'Acadie du Nouveau-Brunswick has created a director position for new Acadians on the Board and we are encouraging other Francophone organizations to do the same. In fact, Anne-Lise was previously the new Acadian representative on the board of directors.

So, efforts are being made, and there is no doubt that young people are much better integrated; that is clearly the case everywhere.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Ms. Boucher.

We will now complete the third round with Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

We have been talking about credential and diploma recognition. This is a very complex problem. I did a study on access to post-secondary education in French outside Quebec. This goes back some time, to 1987. The fact remains that there are differences even between universities in the same province. For example, you decide to take courses at the Faculté Saint-Jean at the University of Alberta, which is part of the same institution. However, those courses are not recognized because they were taken in French. The universities claim to be independent, but they are 80% subsidized by governments. That is part of the equation. Imagine what it's like from one province to another.

I taught in three provinces, and every time, I had to take additional courses to receive the equivalent of what I had in the province I had just left. Imagine what it's like for a newcomer to Canada who doesn't understand how this works! In Canada, we talk about whether an elephant falls within federal or provincial jurisdiction. We debate the issue and end up deciding that, because it's exotic, it must fall within federal jurisdiction. I won't press the point, but that certainly is a problem.

I would like to talk about Acadia as a whole—the first Acadia as it was when Acadians were deported from Nova Scotia. There are still large communities in the southern part of the province and in Cape Breton. I am aware of that because I worked there for quite some time. There is an interesting feature about Acadia, and it could be a role model. I am talking about the agreements between France and Acadia, for instance. When a student had completed his studies in an institution and been accepted in France, he could go back home and get a job—at least his credentials were recognized.

Coming back to you now, Mr. Nadeau, you referred in your book to the sovereign states we should be dealing with. For the provinces, this is a major problem in many respects. You cited the example of Martinique. Maybe we should go and visit, particularly since the weather is nice. In Saint-Pierre-et-Miquelon, it rains more, but there may be things we can do there as well. You talked as well about the CODOFIL, and our friends--

[Jean-Marie Nadeau]

In Louisiana.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Our Louisiana friends are the children of the deportation, but they retained an historical connection to us. Personally, I completed my secondary studies in Minnesota, where people would say to me: “Hey, you don't speak English here, you speak American”. At least it sounded similar.

Is there anything you would like to draw our attention to, in anticipation of our report, with respect to agreements that we might want to sign with specific countries? Earlier we were talking about what is being done in Quebec for nurses and doctors, but we could also mention the fact that young people from France are able to pursue post-secondary studies here as a result of these kinds of agreements. If I'm not mistaken, the SANB and the SNA have done a lot of work in this area.

[Jean-Marie Nadeau]

I don't think Canada is taking full advantage of Francophonies d'Amérique. Quebec should be commended for acting on this initiative by Benoît Pelletier to create the Francophonies d'Amérique. This will be a tool for the future. Haiti is a country that participates in the Sommet de la Francophonie and with whom we should have a special relationship. This is something that Canada could put on the agenda of the summit—in other words, establishing working groups, within Francophone countries at least, with a view to developing a mechanism whereby diplomas, credentials and experience can be recognized.

Now I don't know when it comes to plumbing, whether pipes are the same in Belgium, Canada and Quebec. But there is no doubt that, with upgrading courses, it would be possible to move things along more quickly for plumbers, for example. We can only encourage that sort of initiative.

I don't think Canada is taking full advantage of Martinique, Guadeloupe, French Guinea, Haiti, and so on. Quebec should also make this part of its mission.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Nadeau.

We have just completed our third round. The committee has some business to attend to. So, I would like to propose a forth and final round of three minutes each.

I have a question for you, Mr. Duncan. Maybe you can answer if have any reports. You've mentioned that we have to understand the social reality and the factor that without a government margin of manoeuvre.... Could you elaborate if you have any documents or papers...?

First, I'm willing to let the members have the floor.

At this moment,

we will continue now with Ms. Glover.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would just like to make a few comments about bilingualism in Canada. We all agree that bilingualism unites us. It is part of our Canadian identity. So, when people ask whether bilingualism divides or unites us, I think we all agree on the fact that it unites us. It's part of our identity.

Mr. Nadeau, in terms of your question about Manitoba, I think I can help. In 1999, the Conservative government in that province published the Chartier Report. A judge had prepared that report for the then Premier, Gary Filmon. It is that report that influences services in French in our province and that has been used for the last 10 years to ensure that services are provided in French.

In fact, the province of Manitoba receives a considerable amount of money from the federal government because its situation is such that it needs transfer payments. So, every time 40¢ on the dollar is spent in Manitoba by the provincial government, that 40¢ is coming from the federal government. It shows an extraordinary level of commitment to our province by the federal government. You are not the only one to say that Manitoba is a role model.

With respect to New Brunswick, the FCFA report clearly states in English:

The number of people with French as their mother tongue has consistently increased in New Brunswick between 1951 and 1991: ...in forty years...the vitality of a community...has hardly been touched by linguistic assimilation....

That is incredible. And then it continues, noting that since 1991 the French population—the people with their mother tongue being French—has remained mostly constant.

New Brunswick is also a role model because its population is not suffering the effects of assimilation, and I hope we can learn something from you in that respect.

I will be sharing the small amount of time allocated to us with Mr. Weston.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you very much, Shelly.

Mr. Duncan, you said that bilingualism could be a force for separation or unity. We saw that when we visited the school in Ottawa, thanks to our colleague, Mr. Bélanger. In the wake of that meeting this week, it has become clear to us that, both for the young people we met and their parents, both French and English are needed as languages of integration. What can we do in that area?

I think that most of the people here believe that the existence, survival and full development of French are better served in one great united country than in small separate parts.

What can we do to ensure that this continues 50 or 100 years from now? Would you care to answer, Mr. Duncan?