Official Languages Committee on March 16th, 2010

[François Côté]

Currently, when the CRTC grants you a licence, you are only allowed to broadcast 80% pop music, 12% country music and the remaining 8% belongs to the third category which includes blues, jazz or—

[Simon Forgues]

Classical music.

[François Côté]

—classical music or religious music. Thus, you have to broadcast music that belongs to this 8% category. There is no choice.

We asked the CRTC to let us choose the music—other than pop music—that corresponds to the 20% portion. We want to decide what our community wants to hear.

Basically, people from our community told us that they were not very interested in jazz. On the other hand, they told us that if we played country music, they would be very happy. Thus, we asked the CRTC for a little flexibility.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you.

Let us begin our fourth round table. Some committee members said that they wanted to put questions. Let us begin with Mr. Généreux.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Good morning, everyone, thank you for being here.

I would like to come back to the issue of the $30,000. Among your 140 members, you have campus radio stations in universities and CEGEPs, I imagine. Do you want them to be treated in the same way as all the other community radio stations? For example, we know that there are 150,000 listeners in New Brunswick, but we also know that a campus radio attracts far fewer listeners. Are you asking for an equal amount that would be the same for everyone?

[François Côté]

This is the case because it is difficult to tell whether a campus radio station only has 2,000 listeners. Let us take Iqaluit for example, with its 600 francophone residents. The radio station has 400 listeners. Are we going to draw a distinction? No, because to us, this radio station is just as important, if not more so, because it has even less personnel and fewer resources. Therefore, they need our help much more than does a station with 170,000 listeners.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

So there is no distinction.

[François Côté]

No, everyone needs help. We do not have enough to fulfil our mandate.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Now let me address everyone in general. Earlier, we discussed young people and new media, such as Internet. I feel that we did not say much about the new realities of today. That must certainly have some kind of impact on you.

Do you see opportunities rather than threats in what you see coming over the coming years? For example, how many members did the ARC have when it was created, and how many does it have today? How many members will you have in 10 years from now, if we take into account the current threats and opportunities?

[François Côté]

In fact, this will create possibilities that we did not have previously. On the other hand, this is very threatening to us. You need adequate resources to make the leap into the new media. If we had the resources, it could be an opportunity; if not, it would be a constraint, which could ultimately be harmful to us.

In Canada, the ARC began with very few members, less than 10. Today, we have 31 members. Will we have more? If we have 35 members in 10 years from now, we will be satisfied because we will have covered more or less all the communities.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Very well. I understand that there has been expansion over time, despite financial constraints, volunteers, exhaustion, etc.

[François Côté]

Yes.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I have volunteered for various organizations. I was the chair of a community-based media organization in my region until last November 1. I am therefore well aware of the reality of community media organizations and the difficulty of obtaining money through advertising. It is not easy to get national advertising. It takes a great deal of effort to get access to that money. With the few resources we have, we often miss out. We do not have sufficient means. I am aware of some of your realities.

Are you in a position to tell us what the audience ratings are for community radio stations in general? Are people aware of their ratings in their respective sectors?

[François Côté]

Unfortunately not, apart from one or two stations who subscribe to the BBM polling organization. It is very expensive. That is why only one or two are subscribers. The others are not. We do not therefore have real results. I recall a ratings survey carried out in Ontario a few years back. Such surveys have to be carried out at least once or twice a year in order to truly have a good idea of the audience rating.

Currently, we only have the numbers for two stations. As far as the other stations are concerned, we have a general idea, but we do not know the exact audience numbers in the various markets.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Young people most often follow a path in order to make their way in this world. You have done so, Mr. Forgues, working for a community radio station and moving on to another level later on.

If we can go out and find additional funding, I see an opportunity in this reality to act to affect new media and our youth. In my opinion, this is potentially a new opening we should consider. I do not know what you think of that. If we have additional requests to make of the government, I think it must be done taking new realities into consideration. These new realities today are a reflection of the greater and greater popularity of new media. If we want to help young people familiarize themselves with them through community radio stations, could this also be another way of obtaining additional funding?

[François Côté]

It certainly could be one way of doing so. However, it is all well and good to invest in new media and in youth, but if the main resource is not the station, there is no point in investing there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

I agree.

[François Côté]

We need a permanent staff member in order to explore those areas.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Généreux.

I now give the floor to Mr. D'Amours.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Côté, earlier on you raised the issue of small markets. You mentioned Fredericton and Saint John, among others. There are also other realities. Take the example of one of the three radio stations at home, that is CFJU, in the Saint-Quentin and Kedgwick region. The truth is that it is a very good community station, but the population is not there to support it. There are not enough people to help meet this station's needs without difficulty.

Even in areas that are 99.99% francophone, there are community radio stations that are currently having difficulties or will in the future because of certain realities. They can only sell a limited amount of advertising to local businesses. If they want to continue to serve the community, they have to be able to help it.

Other than this radio station in our region, private stations that are setting up in the area come from Quebec and they cover a huge territory. In fact, I do not know how they manage to cover such a broad territory. This does not reflect the reality of Saint-Quentin and of Kedgwick. Absolutely not.

[François Côté]

This station is meeting a community need. Communities need their own stations. I could give you the example of Rivière-la-Paix, in Alberta.

Rivière-la-Paix has the same problem, that is to say that the community does not have a big enough population to allow the station to survive. On the other hand, if the community did not have this station, the rate of assimilation would be incredible. We have to move much more quickly. A radio station does not put an end to assimilation, but it does delay it. That is part of our mandate. That is why we are telling you we need help. Some of our stations do not have a market that would allow a station to survive thanks to advertising. On the other hand, if we had other resources, that would allow a certain stability for the radio station.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

I would like to say something regarding an answer you gave earlier on. It is all well and good to focus on new media, but if we lose all the ground that we have actually gained, we will end up with nothing—as someone from my area already mentioned. That is what the result would be and we will find ourselves in the red. Instead of making progress, we will have destroyed what we already had in order to move in a new direction. It is not at all useful. The current mandate is important and we have to continue working towards its achievement.

Mr. Potié, you had some concern regarding the sum of $15 million that was sent from Canada Post to Canadian Heritage. If I were in your shoes, I would be more than concerned.

Over the last few years, we have had bad experiences. Everything having to do with the community sector or with the community has had to face certain shattering realities. Take the literacy program that was cut or the announcement yesterday regarding the funds for community access to the Internet or to provide training to people. That was cut. Everything is tied to the community.

There is a reality as far as your weeklies and your members are concerned. When funds are reallocated elsewhere, I have grave concerns because of what we have experienced over the last few years. In two years' time, the reality could well be that our funding will quite simply disappear for reasons x, y or z, be it for reasons of managing the economy or managing the federal budget. When this money was at Canada Post, it was up to Canada Post to take the $15 million and reduce the costs of the newspapers.

These are all community newspapers. There are no Irving empires that have any business there. They are all community newspapers that could disappear.

As Ms. Glover mentioned earlier, what applies to community radio stations also applies to community newspapers, such as La Liberté of Saint-Boniface. That is the truth. One of my nieces writes regularly for La Liberté. If that paper ceases to exist because of a lack of funding preventing distribution, the domino effect is to increase assimilation at an exponential rate. When we take money from one place while telling the other that they're no longer obliged to give because it will be taken care of in future, it is quite worrisome. Your initial concern should be much greater if you look at what has happened over the last few years.

If this program were to disappear completely, how many of your newspapers would continue to exist?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Mr. Potié.

[Francis Potié]

If the program disappears completely, I cannot tell you how many will not find a way to adapt, but clearly several of them will not survive.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Some will fold and some will remain.