Official Languages Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2010

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Why are they not followed?

[Supt Tim Cogan]

That's a good question and it's one we are pursuing.

As I said, we are pursuing it aggressively, and we have the support of the senior management and the commissioner to make sure that is the standard that is met.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

How long will it take to get to 100% compliance?

[Supt Tim Cogan]

Our compliance will be at 100% as of today.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

As of today?

Did the RCMP pay Google for its translations?

[Supt Tim Cogan]

I have no idea whatsoever about that, sir.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Could you tell us whether you paid Google for its services and, if so, how much it all cost?

[A/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

We will ask the people from British Columbia and we'll let you know.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Okay.

Ms. Ferreira, you are the Director of Official Languages. How does your deputy minister report to the clerk of the Privy Council on official languages? Could we have a copy of his review?

[Nathalie Ferreira]

Yes. Normally, we provide an official languages review to the Treasury Board every two years. This used to be a yearly practice. We were not asked to submit a review for 2009-2010. It's probably in 2010-2011 that we will have to report on all our activities regarding the implementation of the program and the Official Languages Act. That's when we'll talk about our initiatives.

As for providing updates to our managers and our deputy minister, we do it regularly through briefing notes, our review and reports on measures that have been adopted.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Okay.

What specific instructions have you been given by the clerk of the Privy Council on official languages?

[Nathalie Ferreira]

The instructions are simple: it is always a matter of complying with the law and ensuring that the program and the measures that we implement are compliant. The goal is to promote the agenda, to move it forward and to enhance compliance.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Gravelle.

We now go to Mr. Rickford.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and my thanks to the witnesses for coming today.

I want to preface my remarks today by saying that we're dealing with a specific issue, and some of the questions are hard questions. For my part, certainly, some of my closest friends are members of the RCMP. Having worked with the RCMP in some of the most isolated and remote communities in Canada, I have nothing but admiration and respect for the outstanding job they do.

It's not going to prevent me from asking some hard questions today. Indeed, you've heard some others.

Lost in translation--this is one of my primary concerns. I have an anecdotal example of my own. When I started out as a nurse in an isolated Cree community, I remember asking an elderly lady, through a translator--she was complaining of cold symptoms and I could tell her nose was running. When I asked how long her nose had been running, she started to laugh, as did the translator, saying, “My nose doesn't have legs. It can't run. And if it did, where would it run to?” So I had a very early appreciation on how things can get lost in translation.

On a little more serious note, with respect to Google Translate, we did a bit of work and we have an interesting newspaper here. The French business paper, La Tribune, launched an experiment in July 2009 to run a multilingual version of its website. The experiment was based on Google Translate and generated some comical headlines. This was one French title:

“Ryanair prêt à faire voyager des passagers debout.”

It's pretty straightforward French. It translated to “Ryanair alone to make travel of the passengers upright”.

The second title was:

“Les atouts du droit continental dans la gestion de la crise.”

That was translated as “Assets of the continental right in management of the crisis”.

So the quality is really mediocre. Indeed, I've experimented with translation a time a two. And I think we can all agree how problematic Google Translate can be.

I'm going to focus on B.C, Surrey, because I have an old news release by one Mr. Shields, which I think has been discussed by my colleague, Mr. Nadeau, and....

I visited the website of Surrey, British Columbia. I realized that news releases are not alone in being available only in English. This was also true of general information on gangs, family violence, road safety and other important issues. I feel that this situation is unacceptable, especially since the RCMP was made aware of the problem in July and August 2010.

We can't have this. I understand some of the practical problems and the need to introduce some immediate news bulletins that we may not be able to translate instantaneously, although I think that's what I'm hearing you'd like to head towards.

Mr. Cogan, based on Mr. Nadeau's questions earlier, I would have taken some comfort in the fact that you had dealt with this issue in Surrey, B.C. Unfortunately, I'm in possession of a news release this morning that continues to trouble me. It appears that there's a new policy as early as Wednesday afternoon, yesterday. Let me read from it.

He's writing about potential victims facing an imminent threat of death, serious harm. He says the Mounties will post a news release immediately, but he notes a slowdown, which he says “comes as a result of the federal Official Languages Act”, and he states once again that E Division doesn't have a full-time translator.

This is a news release from yesterday. I think you may be aware of it.

Do you have anything planned to fix these two problems, which are twofold? First, there's the translation issue in British Columbia. Mr. Shields' comments are still unacceptable, in my opinion.

What specific measures do you intend to adopt in order to comply with the Official Languages Act, in this situation? You have already talked about your objective in a broader sense. Today, I would like to know—and this is perhaps also the case for my colleagues—what specific steps you will take to rectify this situation.

I would also like to know if general information on gangs, family violence, road safety and other important issues will be made available in French as well.

I can't underscore enough the need to address this issue, frankly, of communications coming from Surrey, B.C., where, as you've identified, some poor judgment may have been exercised. It was enough back in the summer. It occurred again today.

I'll leave the last couple of minutes for you to address that.

Thank you.

[A/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

I reference the comment that there is a new policy. There is no new policy. The policy is very clear that it will be in both official languages on the Surrey website as well. That has not changed. I think there is obviously a misinterpretation. There is no new policy--especially when it comes to public safety. We have mechanisms in place to ensure simultaneous broadcasting.

It is translated on the spot.

So that is going to happen.

I reference certain things we're going to do. We've had several discussions. We have had many discussions and now we're going to be pushing it a lot more. We have a translation bureau in Public Works that's available to us. We have an MOU with Public Works—

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Is there a question of resources, Mr. Dubeau?

[A/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

Is there a question of resources? I believe that British Columbia didn't have discussions about how they were going to pay for this. Obviously they are going to have to decide where they're going to find the money, but that will happen, because it's very clear from the commanding officer's perspective of that area that there will be 100% compliance, and the only way you can be compliant is to actually have translators who are available to you to translate. There is no other way around it.

I agree with you. Google Translate is not an appropriate tool. That is nothing against Google Translate. It is not an appropriate tool, and it does not conform to the act.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Rickford. Ms. Zarac will begin the second round.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning and thank you for being here. Unfortunately, I don't have your new 2010-2013 plan on hand. Could you send it to the committee?

Looking at your 2007-2010 plan, I see that it doesn't mention translation anywhere. The second objective talks a lot about developing tools and information booklets, and about media reports, but I see absolutely nothing about translation. Your measurement tool, your performance indicator, is simply a staff survey. Has the survey been conducted? Has it identified a translation-related problem? Will that be mentioned in your 2010-2013 work plan? Do you address the translation issue in the plan?

[Nathalie Ferreira]

It's true that, up until now, translation has not been mentioned in the two plans because the problem had not been brought to our attention. In response to everything that has transpired, we are currently adjusting the plan to ensure that the translation issue is addressed and that improvements are made.

As for the tool we were talking about earlier, we are surveying our employees to gauge their satisfaction and to receive feedback on our work tools.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Has the survey already been conducted?

[Nathalie Ferreira]

A survey was conducted recently. The results are in, and we intend to use them to gauge the degree of satisfaction of employees in their workplace, so that we can determine whether they feel at ease using both languages—

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Pardon me for interrupting you. You say that you have never had translation problems. However, the official languages commissioner says that you are one of the most-complained about organizations. Have none of the complaints ever been about translation?

[Nathalie Ferreira]

We have certainly received some translation-related complaints. The word “translation” does not appear in the plan, since we take a different approach to resolving the issue. We aim to improve our staff members' knowledge of their official languages rights and obligations. Translation is addressed in the sense that we look to make employees more aware of their obligation to produce documents in both official languages simultaneously and equally.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Is this expected of your staff, or do you have official translators? Earlier, you said that you had only one translator in British Columbia.