Official Languages Committee on Feb. 7th, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Perfect; that's great.

[Lorraine Taillefer]

In terms of the 50 children, that is for the after-school program, and not the day care per se.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

So, you're talking about the after-school program. You have 41 children in the day care. That's fine.

Mr. Godin, this will be your first turn as part of this tour.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

It has been quiet, am I right?

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Ah, ah! Yes, it has been quiet.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Welcome to our committee. I am very pleased to be meeting with you as part of this tour. I have visited communities from Newfoundland and Labrador to Vancouver. It's interesting to see what is going on in the communities and I want to commend you on all the work you are doing, because it isn't easy.

Francophones have been in Canada for more than 400 years, but they are still fighting like the devil. Even back home in New Brunswick, we are still fighting for schools. And yet New Brunswick is the only officially bilingual province in Canada. Despite that, we still have to fight for schools because the government wants closures and cutbacks. It's not easy.

You said a little earlier that the school board agreed back in 1995. Did you have to go to court to have your rights recognized in 1995?

[André Bourcier]

There was no battle. In 1988, the new Yukon Languages Act was passed. Starting in 1984, with the new Constitution, a lot of pressure was applied in the territories.

In 1988, the Yukon Languages Act was passed. Immediately afterwards, in 1990, the government passed a new Education Act providing for the creation of school boards.

Francophones immediately said that they were interested, but implementation was extremely complex because no one really knew how it could work here. So, there was no real battle, but it did take quite some time to set up the school board. It took five years following passage of the new Education Act to secure the school board.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you.

There is a school board here. However, even in provinces like Prince Edward Island, Ontario, Nova Scotia and British Columbia, Francophones only secured their own schools after going to court. Even the governments of those provinces did not want them to have French-language schools, when numbers warranted.

If I'm not mistaken, Part VII of the Official Languages Act—and specifically, sections 41 and 43—say that the government is responsible for promoting the two languages. Funding is connected to that obligation.

You say you don't really know what that money is going.

[André Bourcier]

That's correct. It's important to understand that there are not many of us in the Yukon. So, that means there are not many children who are rights holders either.

You may recall the Mahé Decision in 1990. In that case, there were 350 children in Edmonton and the Supreme Court ruled that there would be no separate school board. We dream of numbers like that, so that had to be rethought in the context of the Yukon.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Your schools are practically inadequate. We have to tell it like it is.

Does this mean that families decide to send their children to English school, rather than French school? Do some Francophone parents send their children to the English school because they think they will receive more services there?

[André Bourcier]

Absolutely, and they are not mistaken. There are more services available in those schools. The parents who stay with us are believers in the cause.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

That's where the real problem is. The government should be taking its responsibilities by sending the money and ensuring that you have adequate services, compared to the other linguistic community.

[André Bourcier]

That's right.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

It becomes a federal responsibility.

With respect to Part VII, Mr. Bélanger is well acquainted with sections 41 and 43 that deal with promotion. Are you reading them?

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I have read them.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

This is the federal government's responsibility.

[André Bourcier]

But when we talk to Canadian Heritage, they tell us that education falls within provincial jurisdiction.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

It is within provincial jurisdiction all across Canada, but the federal government has a responsibility when parents go to court and win their case under the Constitution and Official Languages Act. That is how we won in Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia and British Columbia. Even here, you won without having to fight. They gave you what you were asking because legislation was passed. In fact, that does not do away with the federal government's responsibility. At least, I don't think it does.

[André Bourcier]

I agree with you. We won without really winning. We won on paper, but we still don't know where the money went. We are not responsible for management. It is written that we have a school board, but we don't manage it. That's the reason why we went back to court.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

That's the reason why you went back to court.

And the business about day care centres in schools is the same thing. That's what you were telling us. If Francophone day care centres are in the schools, there is a good chance that the children who attend the Francophone day care will decide to remain in French school. If they're sent to an English-language day care or are looked after by an Anglophone, the language will be lost as a result of assimilation.

Are you experiencing the same thing here?

[Isabelle St-Gelais]

Yes, of course. That is the danger if we start refusing Francophone children. The fact is we're helping them, because the more--

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

You may recall that the federal government gives parents $100 a month for every child under the age of six. Do you think it would be a better idea to allocate that money to the day care centres themselves so that they can do some collective promotion, rather than only giving out the $100?

[Isabelle St-Gelais]

Yes, that would be a good idea.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Would it be better? Would you be more in favour of that?

[Isabelle St-Gelais]

I don't know. I only took up my position on January 11.