Official Languages Committee on March 24th, 2011

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Good morning, Ms. Forand. I absolutely share the concerns of my colleague, Royal Galipeau, and of all my other colleagues around the table today. We are somewhat confused by the statements you have made.

During your last appearance, there was reference to an English unilingual region. Today you are stating that there has been no change but that the region has not been designated, whether that be bilingual, francophone or anglophone. The Atlantic region includes four provinces. Francophones and anglophones live there. If the Atlantic region has not been designated, will it have to be one way or another?

This is inconceivable. We came to today's hearing of the Standing Committee on Official Languages in order to shed light on an already complicated situation. Your testimony today has destroyed any certainty we may have had. Not only do we no longer know where we are going, but we are wondering if maybe people in the Atlantic actually speak fish.

I think this is rather depressing, both for the francophones and the anglophones of the Atlantic region. I hope, Ms. Forand, that you will set the record straight once and for all because right now, we are all very confused.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mauril Bélanger]

Thank you, Mrs. Boucher.

That ends our first round.

Colleagues, you will recall that I was the one who proposed having this hearing today. I would therefore like to ask Mr. Godin if he would agree to take the chair so that I can have a turn asking a question at the beginning of the second round.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Thank you, Mr. Vice-Chair.

Mr. Mauril Bélanger, you have the floor.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Ms. Forand, I would like to begin by reminding you of what you stated at your March 8 appearance. You stated that you had consulted organizations in Nova Scotia, including the RDEE and other provincial organizations, on the closure of some of Service Canada's offices.

We have a letter signed by Jean Léger, Director General of the Fédération acadienne de la Nouvelle-Écosse, the FANE, stating that the RDEE and other economic organizations were not consulted. Rather, they were informed of the closure of some offices. They are therefore requesting a one-year moratorium before any definitive closure takes place.

How would you respond to that?

[Liseanne Forand]

Thank for your question, Mr. Chairman.

Before my appearance on March 8, I had been informed that these discussions had been held with those two organizations as well as with two other small organizations from Petit-de-Grat and Chéticamp. I had the same reactions that you have just described in the letter you have before you, that is that these organizations were not satisfied with the nature of the discussions that took place before these changes.

I did not have an opportunity to speak with the representatives of those two organizations but I did speak about this with the FCFA. Following that discussion, I agreed with my colleagues that it would be appropriate to have those discussions again with those organizations.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Ms. Forand, I must ask that you answer more quickly. I only have five minutes in all.

[Liseanne Forand]

Fine. All that to say that I heard the same concerns that you were describing this morning. We plan to have additional discussions with these organizations before the change takes place.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Would you agree to a moratorium?

[Liseanne Forand]

I would not choose a moratorium to begin with. I plan rather to consider the options available for services in those two communities, that is, Petit-de-Grat and Chéticamp.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Will you come back to testify before making a decision?

[Liseanne Forand]

We will come back.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you. I have prepared another question.

During your hearing you stated the following:

In a unilingual service centre, management and oversight are carried out in one language. It could be French in Quebec or English elsewhere. The entire monitoring and management structure is in English. The employee is obliged to speak English.

Section 34 of the Official Languages Act reads as follows: “English and French are the languages of work in all federal institutions, and officers and employees of all federal institutions have the right to use either official language in accordance with this part”.

Do you realize that what you stated is contrary to the act?

[Liseanne Forand]

Thank you Mr. Chairman. I will ask Ms. Rallis to comment on language of work and on the way in which we comply with language of work provisions at Service Canada.

[Gina Rallis]

Thank you very much.

The act is very clear on ensuring that the workplace is conducive to the use of the official languages. Furthermore, with respect to language of work, the act is clear on the rights of employees to be able to express themselves, write, have tools and supervision that respect official languages.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Fine, but the deputy minister stated the opposite. She stated the opposite before the Standing Committee of Official Languages of the House of Commons. Do you not see the contradiction?

[Gina Rallis]

I think that the deputy minister was clear on the fact that our department fully supports the act and she is here to provide that clarification. To the member, I apologize but we were also subject to the Commissioner of Official Languages audit and...

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Yes, but you are accountable to Parliament, madam. Do not forget it. We also do our work. I must admit that I seldom get carried away, but I am starting to lose patience with your skirting around the issue.

Getting back to you, Ms. Forand, for the last time, if I have the time.

[Liseanne Forand]

Yes.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Do you think it is justifiable that a bilingual region, New Brunswick in this case, reports to a unilingual region? Given that you have recreated an Atlantic administrative region whose headquarters is in Halifax, the New Brunswick region now has to go Halifax.

Do you think it is justifiable to have a bilingual region reporting to a unilingual region?

[Liseanne Forand]

Sir, I would simply like to clarify once again that New Brunswick does not report to Halifax.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

To which region does it report, madam?

[Liseanne Forand]

There is the managing official who is located in Halifax, but the other senior positions are dispersed throughout the Atlantic region.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

But explain this to me. My time is up, I am sorry. Perhaps one day we will understand.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Ms. Guay.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Ms. Forand, this is the second time you have appeared before us and I would say, as did my colleague Royal Galipeau, that the first time you got bogged down in some details but that at this point you are practically sinking.

It really is very difficult for us to understand. There is unanimity here around the table, something that happens seldom. I think something is seriously wrong in the New Brunswick region. You are going to have to take certain measures to address this.

After you appeared before our committee, a few days later, a senior official from Service Canada in the Atlantic region publicly contradicted what you had said. What do you have to say to that? Quickly, if you will.