Official Languages Committee on March 30th, 2010

[Graham Fraser]

That can happen, but we are talking about correspondence between two people. In general, if someone writes to someone else and sends a copy to three other people, then they will receive the answer. However, offhand, I cannot give you any examples of correspondence with Air Canada of which I have received a copy.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

But I was wondering whether anyone sends you copies of their letters.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Your last question, Mr. Lemay.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Yes, my last question will be very brief.

If someone sends you a certified copy, do you have the authority to ask Air Canada what the response was to this person who complained that the two official languages were not respected?

[Graham Fraser]

Absolutely. Something else we can do and have done is the following: if someone writes to me or sends a copy of a letter that resembles a complaint to me, often, an analyst will contact that person and ask whether they want to submit an official complaint. Sometimes, the individual will state that they do not want it to be considered a complaint. On other occasions the person may indicate that they do want it to be considered an official complaint. I see that Mr. Godin has already experienced this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Lemay.

Commissioner, you state that you received 38 complaints concerning the opening ceremonies. Were all 38 of these complaints about the lack of French?

[Graham Fraser]

I believe so. I don't think that there were any comments indicating that there was too much French.

[Ghislaine Charlebois]

You are right. The complaints all concerned the lack of French.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you.

Thank you for that quick answer.

Now we'll go with Mrs. O'Neill-Gordon.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Welcome, witnesses.

First of all, coming from the east coast, and coming from a province that's the only bilingual province in Canada, although I'm not bilingual myself I certainly appreciate the work of such committees and I appreciated seeing how wonderfully you guys put it all together at the Olympic Games. You deserve a lot of congratulations.

As a teacher, I was in a school where French immersion was being taught, and many students and parents brought their children into that. I find it depressing to hear Mr. Nadeau say that in Quebec it is just one language, and that's what's taught. We're trying to bring children into our community and it's the youth who are going to make the difference. It's the upcoming generation who are going to make the difference in Canada and make Canada the bilingual country it is, not just in New Brunswick, but right across, including Quebec as well.

So I'd like to say congratulations on a great job. But I also realize that with Air Canada you do face many challenges from day to day, and it's not always that you can have it go as smoothly as you would like it to go. But I know, in that situation, as well, you are doing a great job, and our government appreciates all the work you're doing.

May I ask if you have an idea of how much it costs Air Canada to maintain the Official Languages Act obligation?

[Graham Fraser]

I don't have a total figure. I know that when there was a representative from Air Canada who appeared before your committee in October, she talked about over a million dollars in training costs. I'm not sure whether that's over a one-year, two-year, or multi-year program. I can't give you an overall figure.

One of the things about language services is that once those language services are in place, if you have bilingual employees, if the signage and information has been prepared in both languages, then the cost drops to zero. And it speaks a bit to the identity challenge that language represents.

Something that's worthwhile remembering is that, above and beyond the obligations, there were private sector companies in Vancouver that ensured that all their signage was in both languages. To the best of my knowledge, there was no vandalism. Thirty years ago, had those signs been as rigorously in both languages in western Canada, somebody would have taken a paint can to them.

Now we are at a point that it's taken for granted that both languages will be present in certain events. Sometimes it's an afterthought. It took a fair amount of pressure and nagging from your committee, from the government, from the FCFA, from our organization, but once that bilingual signage was in place it became part of the landscape. So the challenge, in many ways, is to ensure that this becomes what people take for granted as part of the landscape.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

I see that as contributing to the fact that our youth and our generation of today see the need and the use of both languages being present. We can look forward to these young people coming up.

As a grade one teacher I look forward to them coming up and changing things as they go in a more positive way.

[Graham Fraser]

As I said in my declaration, I was very impressed how, from one Olympic Games to another, we saw not only more medal winners, but more medal winners who were spontaneously--sometimes still panting from having won a medal--able to give interviews in both languages.

I think everybody was moved by the personal stories recounted often in a very charming way in both languages by our extraordinary medal-winning athletes.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mrs. O'Neill-Gordon.

Commissioner, when the representatives of Air Canada appeared before our committee, they explained to us that they are subject to the Official Languages Act, like other government entities, but that unlike these entities, they do not have access to certain funds.

Do you have any comments on this topic?

[Graham Fraser]

Organizations have all sorts of obligations in our society. Sometimes, the government decides that it is worthwhile helping a company honour these obligations. However, we would expect that a private-sector company would respect its environmental obligations. That is part of this company's obligations. The government can decide to help the private sector. Subsidies are awarded in other areas. I'm not against this idea, but I do not think that this excuse should be used by a company that has signed a formal contract containing obligations.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Commissioner.

Mr. D'Amours.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Commissioner, these discussions have taken place repeatedly between committee members and Air Canada representatives. It's always the same thing. They tell us that they do not have the means to implement these measures and thus want the government to provide them with financial assistance, as it does for other departments. However, there is a major difference between these two situations. The condition was clear: the signatories had to fulfil these obligations. They knew this, and yet they still decided to sign the agreement. They knew that by virtue of these obligations, they would have to offer their services in both official languages. This means that it is up to them to respect that agreement. You expressed this very clearly at the beginning of the meeting. They signed an agreement that they must now respect. If they did not want to respect these obligations, they should have continued negotiating and specified that they did not want this clause included. The agreement likely would simply have fallen through, given that the clause was part and parcel of what the government wanted at the time.

My colleague, Mr. Bélanger, asked you earlier to tell us what, in your opinion, should be included in a bill to ensure that the loopholes in the system are closed up. In that way we wouldn't have to amend the act all the time to adapt to changing realities. Companies sometimes change their name, for different reasons, or hive off a portion of their business. But that doesn't change the fact that they must fulfil their obligations.

You haven't had time to answer, but I would like to know if you intend to provide us with these recommendations. In that way, if the government doesn't want to go forward, we could at least find a way to tackle this situation. We've been going in circles for too long. Minister Cannon gave us some hope in 2006, but our hopes were quickly dashed. Nothing came of it, absolutely nothing. Parliament was prorogued, supposedly to allow the government to reflect on the road ahead, but this prorogation certainly did nothing to foster bilingualism at Air Canada.

Do you believe that you will be able to provide us with these recommendations?

[Graham Fraser]

Mr. Chair, I am an officer of Parliament. In my opinion, one of the requirements as such is to be available to members of all political parties. In the past, when people from political parties or members of Parliament prepared bills, our legal services were available for consultation and to answer any questions on the ramifications or meaning of any given section. I think that the members of all parties can attest that our legal services were available and that our expertise was at their service. As an officer of Parliament, I am very proud of the fact that our expertise is available to all parliamentarians and all members of all political parties.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Time goes by too quickly when I speak. Maybe the Conservatives opposite—because I hear comments—want it to be over quickly.

Are the comments we have made this morning sufficient, or would you like to have an official request in writing so that you can respond to it? Are you able to provide us with certain pieces of information?

[Graham Fraser]

I'm a bit hesitant. I know that our legal services are available for consultation. However, as concerns preparing a bill ourselves, that's another story.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

You wouldn't necessarily have to prepare a bill. Since the beginning of our meeting this morning, you have raised certain concerns and points. This information should be taken into account as part of a bill. So it's more about your concerns, or what should be included to minimize these concerns, as well as information that could ensure compliance with the Official Languages Act.

We're not asking you to draft a bill, but rather to help us identify key elements that should be included therein, that would make your work easier and ensure that the Official Languages Act is respected by the people of Air Canada and its future employees.

[Graham Fraser]

We have duly noted your wish to study this. We'll see what we can do. Rest assured that our legal services are at the disposal of all parliamentarians who are seeking legal advice on specific issues.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Please let us know if you need clarification or if you need our requests in a certain format and we will follow up.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. D'Amours.

Mr. Godin.