Official Languages Committee on March 29th, 2012

[Caroline Turnbull]

In certain parts of Canada, depending on how much an education board promotes second-language learning, greater emphasis is sometimes placed on first-language learning. We promote second-language learning, given its potential impact on cognitive development and on many other areas, according to research.

In some cases in Canada, teachers do not always choose to teach a second language. I will talk about where I work, in New Brunswick's francophone sector. In francophone-dominated regions, especially in northern New Brunswick, English as a second language is taught by generalist teachers who don't always speak English. There may be similar situations in British Columbia, where French as a second language is taught by people who only speak English.

Occasionally, a lack of equality may be noted when it comes to the conditions that apply to our young people in the learning of a second official language. We believe that is one of the reasons for the shortage.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Do you feel that a person must really be exceptionally bilingual in order to teach a second language? Is that what you are saying? I may have misunderstood.

[Caroline Turnbull]

No, I just wanted to give you an example. For instance, I don't speak Japanese, but if I was asked to teach it, I would do my best to teach things that are related to that language. I would not be able to explain cultural sensitivities or perhaps even to speak in Japanese.

In some of the country's regions, third, fourth or fifth grade generalist teachers are occasionally asked to teach mathematics, English and French as a second language. At times, their command of French is not good enough for teaching core French. The same goes for core English.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Okay. So it is really a matter of language.

[Caroline Turnbull]

Yes, at times.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Right after that, you say that the second-language teaching profession is still undervalued. I find that somewhat surprising. I am under the impression that there are enough young people looking for a job in education who can speak both languages. However, it seems that job opportunities are lacking.

Why do you say that this profession is still undervalued, even today?

[Caroline Turnbull]

The Canadian Association of Second-Language Teachers conducted a survey to determine how many people usually remain in that profession. People were asked questions about second-language teaching and about the second-language teaching profession. The information gathered on this topic revealed that people were leaving second-language teaching after barely five years. According to them, their administration or school board would commonly fail to provide them with sufficient support in terms of resources, professional development, and so on.

Of course, we invest tremendous efforts into promoting second-language teaching. That's where I have spent my whole career. I find it unbelievable that people do not like this profession, but it all depends on the forces or issues that determine how interest in specific subjects is distributed. Currently, in Canada, there is a great deal of interest in sciences and technologies, as well as in mathematics, mother tongue and literacy.

Existing research indicates that the use of a second language provides young Canadians with a slew of benefits. Those of us who speak a second language do not see why this profession is less valued than others in certain regions of the country.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Do you feel that, in our province of New Brunswick, second-language learning is more valued compared with other provinces?

[Caroline Turnbull]

Yes, I think that it is very valued at home. Our province is officially bilingual, and it maintains its linguistic and cultural duality. We place great emphasis on programs for students. We place a lot of stress on both languages.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay, thank you.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Is my time already up?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Yes.

Mr. Bélanger, go ahead.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

In New Brunswick, only the core disagrees on this. However, that is another story.

Ohayô gozaimasu, Ms. Turnbull. That's Japanese. It's all I know in this language.

I will begin with the immersion issue. The 2003-2008 Action Plan for Official Languages—the roadmap's predecessor—focused on three main areas, which were retained in the roadmap. The most important of those elements was education. The other two were community and public service. The education aspect had two main objectives. The first objective was to increase the percentage of eligible people from 67% to 80% in 10 years. The roadmap, which succeeded the action plan, had the same objective, in addition to the goal of doubling the number of young Canadians learning the other language. We don't have any statistics on all that yet, but Mr. Corbeil, from Statistics Canada, came to see us last month. I don't know whether you knew about this.

[Philippe LeDorze]

He paid us a visit as well.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

He presented us with some statistics I found very alarming. According to him, the percentage of young people between the ages of 16 and 19 who can speak both languages has gone from 16% to 13%. That is an unbelievable drop of nearly 30%.

I would like to hear your comments on that.

[Chantal Bourbonnais, Director General, Canadian Association of Immersion Teachers]

My interpretation of Mr. Corbeil's remarks is the following. When young people complete their studies, they consider themselves to be bilingual in 18% of the cases. However, when they are asked the same question around the age of 23 or 24, they no longer consider themselves to be bilingual. So there is a discrepancy. That is why we feel it is important for young people to be able to continue studying and practising French at the post-secondary level.

We all have our own idea of what being bilingual means. We have asked young people whether they were bilingual, and were told they did not know. If we gave them a proficiency test, we would realize that they were bilingual. They are functionally bilingual, but they sometimes feel that they have lost their knowledge.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

It looks like you are less discouraged than I am.

[Chantal Bourbonnais]

I feel that there is a lot of potential.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

The potential is certainly there.

[Chantal Bourbonnais]

We must continue sustaining and developing it.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

So more money is needed, even though Mr. Valcourt told us that less of it would be available. We will see.

You are probably right to say that second-language education must continue at the post-secondary level. Someone at this table—and I am talking about Mr. Lemoine—knows a thing or two about this. He managed to convince the University of Ottawa to create an immersion program at the post-secondary level.

Is that program working well?

[Hilaire Lemoine]

Yes, it is working very well.

I should point out something interesting. Currently, about 2,500 students are enrolled in that immersion program. Sixty-five percent of them are products of other immersion programs—a rather encouraging indicator—and the remaining 35% are products of core French programs. Either way, this means that certain programs are working.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Those programs also cost more.

[Hilaire Lemoine]

Absolutely.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

So, more money is needed to continue with this.