Evidence of meeting #38 for Official Languages in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was research.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

David Graham  Provost and Vice-President, Academic Affairs, Concordia University
Lorraine O'Donnell  Coordinator-Researcher, Quebec English-Speaking Communities Research Network (QUESCREN), Concordia University
Heather Stronach  Executive Director, Regional Association of West Quebecers
John Buck  Executive Director, Community Economic Development and Employability Corporation
Françoise Enguehard  President, Société nationale de l'Acadie
Noel Gates  President, Regional Association of West Quebecers
Grant Myers  Provincial Economic Development Officer, Community Economic Development and Employability Corporation
Éric Mathieu Doucet  Executive Director, Société nationale de l'Acadie

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Okay. Thank you.

Your turn, Mr. Menegakis.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

Costas Menegakis Conservative Richmond Hill, ON

Good morning. Welcome.

Thank you very much for your presentations. I found them all very informative.

It's particularly interesting today. I have an affinity, of course, with Dr. Graham and Dr. O'Donnell. I'm a graduate of Concordia University, arguably, I might say, the best university in Canada, but I'm very biased.

Mr. Gates, welcome back to the Hill, sir. I know you've worked here for some time as an interpreter for the House and for the Senate. You are here in a different role today.

I find it a little bit of an oxymoron, or very difficult, to use the words “minority communities” in Canada when we speak of the French-speaking community or the English-speaking community across the country, given that the founders of this land were English people and French people. But here we are today, it's the reality, and we have to refer to you as a minority. I'm almost apologetic when I use the word “minority” because I don't think you should feel like a minority group anywhere you live in Canada. That is the thing that I believe is the goal, if you will, of the road map.

The road map represents an investment of over $1 billion for our government, specifically to address the very issue of vitality and vibrancy and long-term success, if you will, of the English-speaking community in Quebec and the French-speaking community everywhere else.

We are studying it. We're about 80% into it now. It is going to expire in 2013. We don't know what the next phase of it will be, whether we'll call it the road map or something else, but hearing from groups such as yours today, all of the groups, about the importance the road map has played in the programs that you have initiated and in helping you with your good work, it's obvious that we need a replacement, if not a continuation of the road map right now.

This is the first question I'd like to ask—and I don't think I'm going to have time for many questions given that we only have about five minutes each here. Assuming that we continue with the road map or something to replace it, where would you focus? There is a question of sustainability of funds. You want sustainable funds to be able to continue the programs you have, but in addition to that, are there some new initiatives that you will be focusing on that you'd like to see in your organizations that can be enhanced by the provision of more funding through the road map or the continuation of another program of some sort?

10:15 a.m.

President, Société nationale de l'Acadie

Françoise Enguehard

I will answer in English.

In the document I gave you we have priorities. Those priorities will continue because they are deemed to be what is essential for the continuation of the Acadian people. Also, it would be untoward for an organization such as ours to change our minds on what the priorities are. Those priorities have been long thought out: youth and demographic issues, issues related to the exodus of people from rural to urban communities, the departure of the youth, the need for francophone immigration. The identity in the culture in our case is something that is always on the agenda and has to stay on the agenda if you represent people. The literacy issue is an absolute plague and has to be addressed. We are doing our best. And communications...because it is indeed essential that the Acadian people be better understood, especially by the anglophone communities. That's what we had planned to do and have been unable to do because of lack of funding. I will just reiterate that those would continue to be our priorities.

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Do you want to answer as well, Ms. O'Donnell?

10:15 a.m.

Coordinator-Researcher, Quebec English-Speaking Communities Research Network (QUESCREN), Concordia University

Dr. Lorraine O'Donnell

We've mentioned priorities that have been set by community groups. I would like to underline that one of our longstanding partners—the Quebec Community Groups Network—has recently completed a priority-setting exercise that brought together many, many stakeholders, including QUESCREN, to debate and come up with a list of priorities. I will leave it to them, because I believe they are presenting within the next couple of days, to discuss the priorities that they, in consultation with communities, have identified. It includes some of the same issues that Madame Enguehard has discussed—the issue of seniors, the issue of youth, and community diversity, which is a very particular issue defining the English-speaking communities and so on.

Naturally, I would underline that QUESCREN, which is working with QCGN, would always like to support those developments with research so that we can clarify what the precise issues around any of these identified priorities are, whether it's demographic issues, economic issues, or others. I would say that all of the priorities identified should be accompanied by evidence in research.

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Thank you.

Your turn, Mr. Benskin.

10:15 a.m.

NDP

Tyrone Benskin NDP Jeanne-Le Ber, QC

Thank you.

I'd like to thank my colleague from Richmond Hill for his remarks. I, too, have an issue with the term “minority”, especially in language issues. The French and the English are founding members of this country. Although there are satellite communities scattered throughout this very vast country, what holds both communities together is language. The nuances that we're seeing here are really about the particulars of the Acadians, who have a very particular history, and anglophone Quebeckers have a very particular history that is different from anglophones outside of Quebec. I would hope that maybe we can start thinking about using other terminology other than “minorities”.

Another comment I would like to make is that a government's job really is not to spend money but to invest money. Ultimately, whether that investment comes back in terms of GDP, or finance, or cultural and social growth of that country, it is an investment. Every dollar is an investment. It's impossible to separate taxpayers from those who actually receive the services.

One of the things that I think

Ms. Enguehard mentioned the importance of protecting people's culture. That is really important in the anglophone community too. I come from a cultural community myself.

I would like to ask the people from CEDEC and our other participants what they have done to significantly improve the cultural aspect.

It's something that's apart from economic sustainability, but the culture of the people,

what you have done to maintain or improve that aspect?

Let's start with Ms. Enguehard or Mr. Doucet.

10:20 a.m.

President, Société nationale de l'Acadie

Françoise Enguehard

I will let my executive director speak to that.

10:20 a.m.

Executive Director, Société nationale de l'Acadie

Éric Mathieu Doucet

Thank you very much for your comments.

A proud Acadian whose name I am sure you know, Jean-Marc Nadeau, often says: “a small apple is no less an apple than a big apple”. So, even if we are talking about a people like the Acadians, who are not really numerous in comparison with other peoples, we are all peoples, we are all human beings and we all want to cultivate the common identity that unites us.

As to your question of how to develop culture as such, I feel that, in order to make sure that a community or a people can endure, we have to invest in its youth. In our French-speaking schools, we often talk about identity-building. Young people have to be imbued with things that will develop their pride and their identification with their culture and their mother tongue.

When dealing with youth, we often talk about “aha moments”, the times when a kid has an experience that will make him think about, understand and relate to his identity and his culture. He will choose to cultivate them and use them to advantage for the rest of his life. He will register his children in francophone schools, participate in community activities, and so on.

So we need all the initiatives that the government can support that will let kids experience events in which they get out of their communities, meet people from other places and experience those “aha moments”. Among many others, they are some of the indications, we feel, of the long-term development of the vitality of our communities.

10:20 a.m.

NDP

Tyrone Benskin NDP Jeanne-Le Ber, QC

Thank you.

10:20 a.m.

Executive Director, Community Economic Development and Employability Corporation

John Buck

Thank you, Mr. Benskin.

It's a terrific question, and one that's interesting to look at in economic terms, which would be generally the lens that we look through when we examine this.

Largely, part of the role that we have to play in Quebec as an organization that is vertically integrated with operations across the entire province is ultimately creating partnerships with the majority linguistic community. In fact, with more than 200 very concrete partnerships that are documented, a lot of what we're talking about on a regular basis is the added value of having the English-speaking community around the table deciding on the future direction of our communities and demonstrating that added value, not only with respect to ideas and with respect to directions, but also with respect to culture and this element, which is so critical.

Again, looking through a very economic lens, I think we see a lot of the possibilities to promote culture from a tourism perspective. We're very proud of the tremendous amount of work that's been done in the area of research associated with tourism.

Working with partners, not only within the English-speaking community in Quebec but the French-speaking communities outside of Quebec in the rest of Canada, CEDEC and RDÉE Canada and its stakeholders across the country are deeply involved in an initiative that would see us promote this culture for tourism reasons, and it would see terrific economic benefits for the country as a consequence.

If I might just add one brief statement, because we've heard two comments about minority communities, one of the interesting and I think perhaps most important assets of the investments that we see coming through the road map are that they contribute not only to the vitality of the linguistic minority communities.... When we look to Quebec, for example, and talk about 990,000 English speakers who reside there, in fact every dollar that gets invested there has an impact on the entire community, and in many cases an exponentially greater impact for a region than just a very specific linguistic minority community.

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Thank you.

I think that we will be using the word “minority” for a long time into the future, because the rights of linguistic minorities are enshrined in the Constitution of Canada.

We now move to Mr. Williamson, the only member from New Brunswick here with us today.

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB

Yes, thank you very much.

I'm going to continue with the en garde, for a second. It was Churchill who said,

Prenez garde: je vais parler en français.

I come from the south of the province, where we do not have a lot of Acadians. But we have a place called Saint Croix Island, where Samuel de Champlain spent the winter before he ever made it to Quebec. For us, it is an important place for both Canadian communities.

I would just like you to speak about the Acadian presence in New Brunswick, the way in which it has changed in the last 10 or 20 years and the sharing between Acadians and anglophones. It comes as no surprise that the north is French-speaking and Acadian and the south is mostly English-speaking. But there are places like Moncton and even Fredericton where both linguistic communities are found. I would like to hear your ideas about that.

10:25 a.m.

President, Société nationale de l'Acadie

Françoise Enguehard

The Société nationale de l'Acadie represents Acadians from the four Atlantic provinces. So I will refer to Atlantic Acadia.

We often hear about the country as a whole being made up of Quebec and English-speaking Canada. But nothing could be further from the truth than talking about Quebec as French-speaking and the rest of Canada as English-speaking. Every francophone in the country knows that. So do Acadians.

The same goes for the Atlantic region. People often think that Acadia is in New Brunswick. But Acadia can be found in all four provinces. It has a strong presence, even in my province, Newfoundland and Labrador, where we represent less than 0.5% of the population. The population is extremely active, with its schools, its school/community centres and its organizations, some of which have spoken to you from around this very table.

More remarkable is the fact that, approximately since the 1970s, we are no longer talking about survival, even though we are still dealing with issues related to assimilation or migration; we are talking about a boom. I feel that this is a significant stage. We should also mention our relationship with the provinces and the acceptance in all provinces that francophone communities must have their place—even though three are not officially bilingual, as is New Brunswick. This is the case even in my home province of Newfoundland and Labrador. I feel that major improvements have been made in this area.

So before you today is a young Acadia that stands proudly facing the future. No longer are we the Acadia of the past, with a cap in our hand, a chip on our shoulder and tears in our eyes. This is an Acadia that wants to take, and is taking, its proud place in Canada and that wants to move forward, as everyone does.

I also have to tell you that Acadia votes for all three parties. So the Société nationale de l'Acadie is not—I repeat not—a political representative of our people. Our people vote as they choose.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB

Thank you.

Mr. Doucet, do you have comments too? You are from New Brunswick, aren't you?

10:30 a.m.

Executive Director, Société nationale de l'Acadie

Éric Mathieu Doucet

I certainly am.

I support Ms. Enguehard's comments. It is particularly the case in New Brunswick, where 33% of the population is said to be French-speaking. It is spread all over the province. You mentioned Fredericton and Moncton, but I can assure you that Saint John also has a very vibrant community, like a crossroads.

I think that the school/community centre, one of the innovations that New Brunswick has introduced over the years, has really made a contribution and is being used as a model elsewhere. They have been established in the big cities where Acadians are in the minority. These centres that bring together under one roof schools, libraries, community radio stations and a host of services, have become the development focus not only for the community, but also for Acadians and other French-speakers. The centres allow them to establish links and get involved in all kinds of causes.

That is a quick answer to the question. Thank you.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB

Let me turn to the English within Quebec. I studied in Montreal, so I'm familiar with it, although it's been a number of years now.

Actually, this is a follow-up to a question Mr. Bélanger asked a couple of weeks ago. A couple of weeks ago the cover of L'actualité magazine said “Montréal: la tentation anglaise”. Remember that magazine? Did any of you from Quebec read that article? What did you think of that?

10:30 a.m.

President, Regional Association of West Quebecers

Noel Gates

Excuse me, Mr. Chairman, who is the question directed to?

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

I think it's directed to the three anglophone groups from Quebec.

10:30 a.m.

President, Regional Association of West Quebecers

Noel Gates

All right. Maybe without presumption I can just make a comment on that.

Yes, I have seen this article. I'll go so far as to use a word I don't use very often, and that is that I was rather shocked. I am not an expert on conducting scientific sample surveys, but my understanding is that CROP is one of the respected practitioners of this particular art. I think perhaps the politest thing I can say about this article is that it fell considerably below the standard I would expect of them or of any other of our well-known organizations. There were questions in it that were loaded, and I think it's one thing that you don't do in a survey. Unless you really want to twist it in a certain direction, you don't ask loaded questions.

Furthermore, I will say I was entertained to some extent, in a rather sardonic way, by the well-known gentleman who apparently took a part in planning this particular survey. I'm referring, of course, to Mr. Jean-François Lisée, who presents himself as a friend of the anglophone community and answers that he is shocked by the results of this survey. Well, I would merely remark that it seems to me that Mr. Lisée probably got the results out of this survey that he wanted, and I would certainly join with one of the commentators in Montreal, who remarked “With friends like that, who needs enemies?”

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Thank you, Mr. Gates.

Madame O'Donnell, do you have a brief comment?

10:30 a.m.

Coordinator-Researcher, Quebec English-Speaking Communities Research Network (QUESCREN), Concordia University

Dr. Lorraine O'Donnell

I think the reply was ably handled by Jack Jedwab, who is one of the people I've worked with on several projects. But I would simply like to add that it unfortunately gave what I would call an impression that I think statistics show otherwise, which is that the English-speaking population of Quebec is very largely bilingual, integrated, and very committed to the future of the province. I don't think that was the message that emanated from that article.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Thank you.

Mr. Buck, did you have a brief comment on this question?

10:30 a.m.

Executive Director, Community Economic Development and Employability Corporation

John Buck

I would simply suggest that among the partners we have, the majority in Quebec are likely French-speaking organizations that are out there. Our track record and our success is largely built on the fact that the relationships with the majority community are incredibly strong.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

The floor is yours, Mr. Jacob.