Official Languages Committee on Dec. 12th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Dion.

Please be brief, Mr. Minister.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

You are clearly playing with the numbers, because you are not including the other official languages programs that the government has developed. You are playing with the numbers.

I can tell you that the government has made a decision. Our roadmap was a five-year agreement, and we are going to keep that commitment. Yes, our roadmap included various commitments, but they were short-term programs coming to an end. However, our investment in the roadmap will continue for five years, and I can tell you that this represents a 30% increase compared to what you had invested when you were Minister of Official Languages. I am proud of this, because it is better.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Mr. Trottier, you have the floor.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for joining us today, Mr. Minister.

You spoke earlier about immigration. As an MP for Toronto, I am very interested in this issue. As you know, waves of immigrants come to Toronto from all over the world and, as a result, the make-up of the city is constantly changing.

You said that you made it possible to establish 121 points of service for newcomers in 24 cities across Canada. I know that this issue has to do with Citizenship and Immigration Canada, but could you or your officials tell us which countries most French-speaking immigrants come from? We see them especially in downtown Toronto, but also in the suburbs. Could you maybe describe those communities and tell us which provinces they settle in?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

New francophone immigrants come from the big Francophonie family. As you know, they have very diverse backgrounds. They come from all over the world, including Belgium, Switzerland, Rwanda and the Ivory Coast. The services that we provide across Canada reflect this great diversity.

When I organized a round table in Edmonton, the community from francophone Africa was in very good shape. They had access to many programs and organizations on the ground that were providing services to new immigrants.

When immigrants come to Canada, francophone officials are not the only ones to greet them. There are also people who have come here recently and who receive subsidies from the Government of Canada. Those people can tell newcomers about their personal experiences and what has worked for them. The goal is for new immigrants to be able to see their future in Canada with confidence

Perhaps Hubert could give you the figures for the various countries which we have commitments with. As you know, we have many humanitarian commitments with Haiti and the Congo, for instance. Many new francophone Canadians come from those countries.

[Hubert Lussier]

I don't have the most recent figures. It's Citizenship and Immigration Canada that could actually give them to you. Off the top of my head, I know that, for a few years, the largest contingents came from France, Haiti and Congo, but not necessarily in that order.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

As you know, Mr. Minister, we used the most recent version of the Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality for several months. One of the problems it was supposed to resolve was coordination between departments.

Could you please tell us how the Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality helped improve coordination among the various government departments?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Well, this is the best approach we have known. I'm coming back a bit to the context of Mr. Dion's question. In the past, only one minister was responsible for official languages. Like a police officer, that minister had to be aggressive toward his colleagues in the Cabinet. The Liberal government at the time decentralized the minister's responsibilities. Our government integrated these changes, and now the deputy ministers of the departments commit to speaking regularly about their obligations under the Official Languages Act in order to achieve genuine results for the francophone communities.

Daniel Jean, who is on this committee, could perhaps tell you about the meetings. Our government is committed to adopting this decentralized approach, but there is coordination among the departments. It's an effective and responsible approach.

[Daniel Jean, Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage]

We look at the objectives we are trying to achieve in the various aspects of the official languages program, whether it is health, education or something else. We have very specific objectives and evaluation processes. When the results are good, we want to continue our efforts. If adjustments are needed, each department makes them in accordance with its responsibilities. We do follow-up through the horizontal coordination of the department.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

It's not just coordination that's required or desirable; it's now in the structure of things.

Could you describe the structural changes that have taken place in the past few years that aim to ensure the linguistic duality obligations are met?

[Daniel Jean]

The Department of Canadian Heritage acts as a secretariat. We receive the results. There's coordination between the departments with respect to the results of the various programs.

As for our annual report and the consultation between departments, as you know, in the past, we asked 33 institutions to report. But that has changed over the past year. Now, all the institutions are required to report. Among those, 28 have a particularly important mandate. In the past, the 33 institutions were required to report, but now they must all produce a report on what they are doing to promote official languages.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Mr. Lauzon, you have the floor.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to welcome the minister.

You said that funding for the Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality had increased by 30%. Unless I'm mistaken, the number of Canadians who are bilingual is at its highest in five years. Is there a link between the increased funds and the country's increased level of bilingualism?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

We could say that's the case.

The number of Canadians who speak more than one language is increasing, but the ability of Canadians to speak in both of Canada's official languages is decreasing in parts of the country. It's certainly a concern. That's why I think immigration and education are the future. We want to talk about the need to speak both official languages, and not necessarily just to the Canadian adults of today.

The ability to speak several languages develops when we are young. It's critical to have a much more effective education system to improve the deliver of services and programming for children in immersion. Over the past 17 years in British Columbia, there has been a steady increase in the number and percentage of students enrolled in French immersion programs. There are very good examples of success across the country.

But it's difficult to encourage this type of thing without coordination with the provinces. It's difficult because the provinces must themselves juggle budget cuts and financial difficulties. The health care system in particular is costing more and more across Canada. Every one of us, regardless of our political affiliation, province or region we come from, must continue to champion official languages. The federal government must encourage the provinces to develop a serious approach toward Canada's two official languages and invest in them through policies it will be responsible for coordinating with them.

As you know, our young people are very successful when they can speak English and French.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I agree with you. From experience, I know it is easier to learn a language when you are young. The younger you are, the easier it is to learn a language.

You spoke about the situation in British Columbia. Here in Ontario, there aren't enough spots in schools that offer immersion programs. Is there any way to encourage the provinces to offer more spots? The parents are quite involved. In the chair's riding, the immersion rate is limited to 25%. If the rate could be 50%, or even 75%, Canada could one day be fully bilingual, don't you think?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I'm sure you'll agree with me. Mr. Dion and Mr. Chong are former ministers of Intergovernmental Affairs, and Mr. Godin has a lot of experience on Parliament Hill. After 12 years as an MP, I am seeing more and more that we are developing an expertise in other levels of government, and they are developing an expertise in ours. We are experts in what the provinces and cities should do, and the other way around.

This is what happens in public life, and we certainly need to respect it. We can discuss and work with the provinces, but it's up to them to make their choices, taking into account their obligations, their needs, their concerns and their difficulties, day after day. I am sure that it's much more complicated than we realize. As we have done in the past, the only thing we can do, aside from our five-year agreements on education, is to work with them, speak with them and work with organizations like Canadian Parents for French and other organizations that have been successful to encourage them to continue what they're doing and to help young people become champions by creating opportunities to learn French.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Mr. Benskin, you have the floor.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you.

I'd like to welcome Mr. Moore, Mr. Jean and Mr. Lussier. It's always a pleasure to see you.

As you know, this committee recently published a study on the Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality. The Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada is asking the government to respond to the entire report, instead of just the recommendations. Is that something we are going to ask the minister about?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

You can ask, but I can honestly tell you that our answer will be our next roadmap. I sincerely appreciate the work that your committee did, in a non-partisan way. We will certainly have a response. But our real response is our next roadmap. That's our government's policy. That's our approach. The fact that, as part of these consultations, the Minister of Official Languages visited every region of the country was, as I said, unprecedented.

Keep in mind, too, that the 2008-2013 roadmap was drafted after Ms. Verner, the former Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages, asked Bernard Lord to hold consultations. He held five. They were excellent. Some very good ideas came out of them. He organized five round tables across the country and wrote a report. The roadmap was established in the wake of that report. My commitment was the 22 round tables that were held. The roadmap will be based on those consultations, on what this committee has done and on the ideas of people on the Hill.

I also met with Marie-France Kenny last week, in a meeting in my office, here on the Hill. Her ideas are great and she is very committed. She defends her points of view most energetically. We agree on the vast majority of the topics and needs concerning in the next roadmap. I am sure that she'll be quite happy with the policies in our next roadmap.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you.

It's very important to me that an in-depth answer be provided.

Moving on to arts and culture, the arts and cultural sector was an important part of the road map, and the cultural development fund expires in March 2013. Now, as I understand it, the Canada interactive fund has been eliminated. What kind of commitment can you give that arts and culture will be supported strongly within the next road map?

The second part of that question is whether access to arts and cultural funding within the anglophone community in Quebec will be a little more open. Some of the programs that were available were so specific that the average theatre company, for example, couldn't access those funds, and by the very nature of their existence in Quebec they are promoting and supporting the English language. It's a two-part question.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

There are a couple of very good points to keep in mind about this. You are right that arts and culture will be part of the next road map. I can tell you that. It's a commitment I've made to communities around the country. I found when I did round tables across the country that when we added that fifth pillar into the road map, specifically with regard to arts and culture....

As a young anglophone British Columbian trying to learn French in B.C., I had difficulties because as soon as I left the classroom, everything was English. When you leave the classroom and you actually have French experiences in film and the performing arts and music and so on, those enrich your capacity, your understanding, and your ability to properly learn French and to have a proper context for it. Also better than that is being able to appreciate not just the French language but the French language within a Canadian context, a Canadian history context, whether of Acadians or Quebeckers or Franco-Manitobans, people who are proud of the French fact and proud of the French fact within their context. Expressing that in a cultural way is very important.

So to your first point, yes, arts and culture will be part of the next road map as well, and those investments were really important. I've heard again and again that thevitrines musicales was a very popular component.

Mr. Chair, I know I have to move on, but this is an important part. The second part deals with funding of anglophone arts and culture in the province of Quebec. This is a concern that has been raised again and again. It's not just something we as a government are aware of and try to support and appreciate in our own funding models within the Department of Heritage. Obviously, we try to have an open application process for people to apply for funding. It's also an important component of the Canada Council for the Arts as well.

As you know, the Canada Council receives $181 million a year from the Government of Canada, but we need to make sure that all of our cultural organizations are open to people receiving money for the first time. Very often, cultural organizations from the Government of Canada and the provinces get entrenched in giving the money to the people who have always received the money and do not tweak terms and conditions in order to open things up so that new entrants in the cultural marketplace have access to funding for the first time. We have to make sure there's that rejuvenation of our ability to provide funds to cultural organizations that are often just starting up.

In the province of Quebec, I have to say, there has been a push in order for the Government of Canada to have an agreement with the Province of Quebec to just give the Province of Quebec money. I have a problem with that, because I don't think the diversity of voices in the cultural communities will get a fair hearing and access to funding if the Government of Canada is not there to ensure that fair access.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Mr. Chisu.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Minister, thank you for appearing before the committee.

I'm a new Canadian. My mother tongues are Hungarian and Romanian.

You spoke about some recent data from Statistics Canada on Canada's linguistic make-up. You mentioned that the data show that, despite an increase in both official languages, new Canadians who had another mother tongue made up a larger part of the general population, larger than ever before.

Was there any discussion of the demographic issues during the consultations? If so, did the participants mention that immigration was a priority for the communities?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Yes, we have certainly seen the Statistics Canada figures. But don't forget that those numbers arrived in the third or fourth week of October, at the same time we were finishing our consultations.

Clearly, Statistics Canada's ability to provide us with figures is critical for the future of our programming. As I just said to Mr. Benskin, a number of our programs are formula-based, so on quality figures from Statistics Canada. Our approach is still to find the best possible policies so we can continue to respect our commitments.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

During the consultation, was there any discussion on how to integrate recent immigrants to Canada so that they can succeed and benefit from the economic advantages of Canada's linguistic duality?