Oh, oh!
Evidence of meeting #76 for Official Languages in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was students.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #76 for Official Languages in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was students.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:45 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB
What you say seems to indicate that we have perhaps enough resources for core programs in the country. We talked about a certain number, but perhaps that was not you. Did you mention 62%?
4:45 p.m.
Director of Education, Ottawa-Carleton District School Board
Indeed, 62% of our kindergarten students are in early immersion.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
4:45 p.m.
Director of Education, Ottawa-Carleton District School Board
You want to know how many continue on until the end of grade 12?
4:45 p.m.
Director of Education, Ottawa-Carleton District School Board
I will have to check. It's in the program.
4:45 p.m.
Director of Education, Ottawa-Carleton District School Board
One thing about immersion programs must be emphasized. At the high school level, sometimes students will decide not to continue with the immersion program because they must take certain classes in order to be admitted to certain university programs, and those classes are not always offered in immersion programs.
However, we have demonstrated that over the last two years, the number of people who pursue the immersion programs has increased substantially. We have seen a growth of 1,700 credits, both for French classes and other courses taught in French.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB
However, as Mr. Morrow said, in Canada, 5% of people enrolled in immersion programs remain in them until the end of their education.
4:45 p.m.
Director of Education, Ottawa-Carleton District School Board
Yes, but our school board is not at all typical for the country, that's for sure.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB
No, you are not typical.
Nevertheless, your comment suggests that we should perhaps target core French programs throughout Canada.
4:45 p.m.
Director of Education, Ottawa-Carleton District School Board
I don't believe that we have to choose between the two. Instead, we should ask ourselves how we could improve both programs.
If we concentrate only on immersion programs, it would be very difficult for all locations to offer them. We must seek to improve both programs. That way, it will create what you wish to see in the end; you will have students who, once they leave high school, after having followed the core program, or the immersion program, will have a level of French that is acceptable.
According to the results of our evaluation, at the end of the 12th grade, most students in immersion programs are able to meet the challenge of obtaining a B2 level. I don't know if you know the levels.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB
Are those the same levels as those used in the public service?
4:50 p.m.
Director of Education, Ottawa-Carleton District School Board
No, that's another framework. It's the Common European Framework of Reference for Languages. All European languages are based on the same level.
According to our results up until now, immersion programs allow students to reach a B2 level, whereas for basic programs, B1 is the level that is aimed for. Both are levels at which students are very competent. However, with the core program, students must be motivated to pursue their studies until the end of grade 12, instead of moving on at the end of grade 9, as is so often the case, unfortunately.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Trottier Conservative Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Adams, you said that 62% of students in your school board were in immersion programs. I would imagine that that's similar to other boards in the Ottawa region, for example the Catholic board. Moreover, students in the French language system are in a 100% francophone environment. So, it could be said that between 70% and 80% of students in the Ottawa region are in francophone environments.
4:50 p.m.
Director of Education, Ottawa-Carleton District School Board
Not exactly. As a matter of fact, that's the statistic for kindergarten. For 62% of 5-year-old children, parents choose the early immersion program.
From a global perspective, many other children choose a point of entry in the 4th grade. Others choose to continue on with regular programs in English. If we consider everything, the percentage of children in immersion programs at the elementary level is approximately 41%.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Trottier Conservative Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
Okay. I think that in Ottawa, it's very unique compared to the rest of Canada.
4:50 p.m.
Director of Education, Ottawa-Carleton District School Board
Oh yes, it's unique.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Trottier Conservative Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
There really is a critical mass of students who study in a francophone environment. In other regions of the country, even elsewhere in Ontario, that same critical mass does not exist.
In its intervention, the federal government recognizes that that same critical mass does not exist everywhere, and that can create certain challenges for education. That's often linked to the distance that must be covered, but also to extracurricular activities and programs, since there are sometimes not enough volunteers to support them.
Is that the case in Ottawa? Is support needed? You spoke of the necessity of obtaining federal government support, but I would imagine that there is no lack of will on the part of the provincial government to adequately fund French-language education.
4:50 p.m.
Director of Education, Ottawa-Carleton District School Board
No, no, there is no lack of will. There really is a willingness to support these programs.
Our school board is responsible for a pilot project which, in the beginning, grouped 13 of 72 school boards, and it now extends to all English-language school boards; there are 60 of them. The project aims to determine how to improve education, with the point of view of taking action. There is no problem, we are very well supported by the province, but the federal government gives us the funds earmarked for teaching official languages. Without this financial support, we would not be able to do what we do now at the provincial level, let alone at the school board level.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Trottier Conservative Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
But is it the responsibility of the Ontario government, especially given this critical mass that you have in Ottawa, to ensure that education programs are well funded?
