Official Languages Committee on May 2nd, 2013

[Garry Breitkreuz, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I don't have a question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

You don't have a question. Okay.

Madame Michaud.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome. I would like to thank the witnesses for coming today.

I would like to continue in the same vein as my colleague Mr. Angus.

I represent the Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier riding, in which the Central Quebec School Board is found.

I was wondering what the situation is, and what particular challenges arise in areas like the National Capital? It is near a large urban centre, but the schools are a bit scattered and farther away from smaller communities.

[David Birnbaum]

It is fascinating. We were discussing the diversity of our system and that is another example.

I can tell you without hesitation that a high percentage of students of the Central Quebec School Board, who have access to schooling in English of course, or they would not be among us, speak their mother tongue quite often, meaning French, when they return home.

Ironically, in some schools from that board, we must ensure that a major part of the day takes place in English given that that is the priority. It is quite the opposite from the challenges we see in schools in Val d'Or or New Carlisle, in the Gaspé region. It is mostly the case in the Quebec region. The challenge is that most students speak French as a first language.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

The population located near the Valcartier base comes to mind. In some cases, students will not have the opportunity to speak French when they are at home.

Do some of the Central Quebec School Board schools offer immersion programs?

[David Birnbaum]

Certainly.

First of all, these people are responsible for ensuring that the students speak French well, but English too, given that this is an English-language school board. In this school board, in the Lester B. Pearson School Board and others as well, a growing percentage of students choose to do the French-first-language exam. Those cases are often students whose mother tongue is French, and in the other, they are anglophones who have passed the French-first-language exam.

As for speaking French properly, we are there to teach that. When it comes to writing French well, that presents a major challenge in the case of young francophone Quebeckers. We must also meet this need in those schools.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Absolutely.

You mentioned earlier that we need better strategies for parents who are less aware, or who, when they were young, did not have access to immersion programs. They do not necessarily see the importance of offering that access to their own children.

Could you provide us with more details about the strategies that have currently been implemented and those you would like to see developed, possibly with federal support?

[Christine Dénommée]

I could share some ideas with you.

In the case of first- and second-generation immigrants who did not grow up exposed to French as a second language, we provide literacy activities and workshops designed for parents. Indeed, the transfer of knowledge must take place. However, early strategies or strategies for decoding in French, for example, are different than those used for English or for a third language.

We want to offer parents tools through workshops and skills development, in collaboration with what we offer students, among other things. This can be done through our Community Learning Centres or in cooperation with our community partners. One challenge, still in the regions, is offering services that are accessible in English. We do need to be able to explain the reasons for all of this in English. Access to those services is therefore required.

[David Birnbaum]

We are talking about federal involvement. However, a community support program in an official language includes support given to community groups. There are many examples of this, but I will provide you with two.

For the black community of Caribbean origin, learning French seems to pose a particular problem. The same is true for East Asian communities. But community groups that support those communities work with us. Those are often associations that identify with the minority language community.

The federal government has a role to play in supporting those communities as they move forward with us. What we have in mind is ensuring that when the problem arises, an increased effort is made to teach French as a second language in the case of children coming from those communities.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

All right. Thank you.

Mr. Trottier, you have the floor.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I would like to ask our witnesses some questions about the agreements and protocols between the provincial and federal governments. I imagine you have some experience in that area.

Are there things that could be done better in the context of the next roadmap, for example?

I imagine that in some cases, it would take very little time, but could you provide us with some advice as to how we could better manage these agreements between the federal government and the provinces?

[David Birnbaum]

The groups that benefit from these funds, including our school boards, often say that delays cause a major challenge. This is also a problem we experience with our own provincial government. Furthermore, certain parameters do not provide them with the flexibility they require. I'll give you an example.

If we talk about the community learning centres, they are a tremendous success and a lifeline to some of our smaller schools in allowing them to become hubs in the community. Occasionally there have been requirements under the federal agreement that we open up additional ones while the funding for existing ones is drying up. Now, these community learning centres are not going to become profit centres. They will probably always require some extra government support in order to continue operating. The results are tremendous where they are.

The current agreement makes it difficult for those centres to continue to be funded on an ongoing basis. Occasionally in a rather artificial way we have to scramble to open up new ones when it's not what the real objectives of the program might have called for.

I guess the other thing we would just point to without being specific is the great care and vigilance we take in ensuring that a very solid Canada-Quebec minority language and second language agreement is signed. We are deeply conscious of the current political situation in Quebec. We would underline that we have built a very transparent and excellent relationship with the current minister of education in Quebec, and we're optimistic. But there's no doubt this will be a sensitive process and that bilateral agreement is not signed yet.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Are there examples, either through the ministry of official languages or through Heritage, of the school boards getting funding directly from the federal government, or is it always through the province, to your knowledge?

[David Birnbaum]

My understanding is that except for perhaps a couple of the programmes ponctuels, it would be funnelled directly through the Ministry of Education, when you're talking about education.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Okay, and again, if we're taking a somewhat more blue-sky approach, because all the details of the road map for 2013-2018 haven't been finalized—there are obviously proposals that still have to come forward and agreements that need to be signed—are there some new innovative things the federal government could do to further enhance immersion? Ultimately the goal is not immersion but promoting linguistic duality in the country via this important vehicle of immersion.

Can you think of some things, some brand new programs, for the next five years of the road map?

[David Birnbaum]

That's a very helpful question.

I think we would point to a least one, and perhaps two.

To start with, I think francophones in the rest of the country probably join us in being pioneers with respect to distance education and e-learning. We don't find a very enthusiastic ear with our provincial governments in that matter. I'm not a constitutional expert, but I think there are federal portes d'entrée into that whole dossier. We would suggest that the notion of e-learning and distance learning are certainly worth taking a look at.

The other thing would be that I know there are extensive second language monitoring programs and exchange programs for which I think there are direct relationships with community partners and perhaps even with our school boards. Those help support the kinds of objectives we're talking about here.

[Suanne Stein Day]

I would like to add to that the other supportive organizations that aren't directly controlled by us but that work very closely with us. You fund the Quebec Federation of Home & School Associations. They are fighting for the rights of the English student in virtually every way: when it comes to special needs, when it comes to bilingualism, and when it comes to new curriculum, changing the curriculum, or whatever.

We see working with our community as a huge part of our success. That's why our students do better. It is a fairly unique arrangement with the anglophone school system, but we would like to see the continued funding of those ancillary organizations that work with our schools on a regular basis.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Mr. Breitkreuz, you have a brief question?

[Garry Breitkreuz, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Yes. Thank you very much.

I'm new to this committee. I'm from western Canada, and I have just a few brief questions.

This study is a study of official language programs in all of Canada. I'm from Saskatchewan. Do you have contact with schools there? Is what you do different from what may be happening in some of our schools in southern Saskatchewan?

I'm a former teacher as well, and I found your presentation fascinating. I find this very interesting. Do you have contact with people outside of Quebec, and can you compare what you do with what they do in some way?

[A voice]

Do you want to talk about the CSBA?

[David Birnbaum]

Sure. I will very quickly, and my colleagues might have things to add.

We work really closely with the Canadian School Boards Association at the school board level. The principals have a national association as well. Given that education is a provincial jurisdiction, one of the most important priorities is exchanging information on best practices and so on.

The classroom environment is necessarily so different. We would guess it's a lifeline in Quebec, and it's so important in the rest of the country, but in different ways.

One of the things I would suggest our system could probably be more helpful to other jurisdictions on is in reminding them that French immersion is not just teaching French differently. Ever since people in our community pretty much invented it, along with experts at McGill and elsewhere, we have understood that this is a different way of teaching a language, and all the studies show it works.

We're only guessing, but perhaps those teaching it in the rest of the country haven't fully embraced that. It's not just teaching it more intensively. There are different tools, and we are seeking different capacities in the students we teach. So there might be more interaction and support that perhaps we can give our colleagues in the rest of the country on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay.

[Suanne Stein Day]

I was part of the French immersion experimental program in Montreal in seventh grade in 1969. I can personally attest to what David just said.

We left verb conjugation and “Je m'appelle Suanne. Où est la gare?”, and we moved into a cross-curricular focus in which we were just talking in French. We were talking about art and music and drama. We spoke French on the playground. It fits more closely with what I think is happening in most schools today. We don't just teach math, numbers, history, and geography. When we talk about math, we put in problem-solving about the percentage of Canadians who live in this territory, who do this. So we have cross-curricular approaches to it.

We started that with French immersion back in the late sixties.

[Christine Dénommée]

If you will allow me two seconds, as a former French second language teacher I have to say that you are not just teaching the language of French, you are bringing in different competencies and putting them in a live setting. I do have family in Saskatchewan and in Wainwright, Alberta, who happen to be military personnel. So when I look at it, it is not learning the language, it is learning the language skills and the culture

and the cultural references.

within a very bilingual nation, to make sure that we transfer the knowledge, the culture, and everything that is within a language that is important. So across the province—but we have something very different in Quebec. It is vital for us to be bilingual. So if we can say that other provinces make it much more important, then we'll all benefit from it.

[Garry Breitkreuz, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you very much. I took French for five years and I wish I had the opportunity to do it in this way.

Thank you.