Official Languages Committee on May 2nd, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Welcome to the 78th meeting of the Standing Committee on Official Languages, on Thursday, May 2, 2013. Pursuant to standing Order 108, we are studying second official language immersion programs offered in Canada.

In front of us this morning we have the Quebec English School Boards Association, represented by Mr. Birnbaum, Madam Stein Day, and Madam Dénommée. Welcome to all of you.

Before we begin with an opening statement, there have been discussions among all the members from all the parties of this committee, and because we only have one group in front of us today we will adjourn at approximately 4:45 in order to allow all members of the committee to ask questions and do one complete round. At that point we'll adjourn because normally we would have three groups in front of us, and so in the interests of time—

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

We have the quality....

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

We have a very high-quality group in front of us today. So today we'll go for approximately an hour and a quarter, and we'll adjourn at that point.

Without further ado,

you have the floor.

[Suanne Stein Day, Board Member, Quebec English School Boards Association, and Chair, Lester B. Pearson School Board]

Monsieur le président, members of the standing committee, the Quebec English School Boards Association, QESBA, is grateful for this opportunity to share with you its experience, aspirations, and concerns regarding a subject that is at the very core of our educational mission, French second language instruction.

I am Suanne Stein Day, member of the QESBA board and chair of the Lester B. Pearson School Board on Montreal's West Island. I am joined today by Christine Dénommée, assistant director of pedagogical services at the English Montreal School Board, and David Birnbaum, executive director of QESBA.

We understand the specific topic of study before the commission to be the official language immersion programs. As representatives of the English public school network of Quebec, we take some personal pride in having been the very birthplace and incubator for language immersion in Canada and in many ways for educational jurisdictions across the globe.

We trust you will indulge us this modest bit of boasting, which we allow ourselves actually for an important reason. First, to have played a role in what has become a story of enrichment for children and families across this country, indeed a story of nation-building, well, that's surely a legitimate source of pride. But more importantly, QESBA makes this point to emphasize that French immersion and related intensive French second language programs in Quebec are a lifeline, perhaps the most vital ingredient in the future vitality of Canada's English-language minority community, the community we serve.

Intensive French second language programs are more than a source of enrichment in Quebec, more than a window on our fundamental value of linguistic duality. These programs in our schools are the required passport to full participation, to full access to opportunity within Quebec society. So the success of intensive French second language programs, the government support for them, and the student participation in them are nothing less than essential.

We look forward to your questions presently, but allow us to use this short introduction to enumerate four areas of pertinence that QESBA trusts will find their place in your study report.

[Christine Dénommée, Pedagogical Services Assistant Director, English Montreal School Board, Quebec English School Boards Association]

Thank you.

I wish you a good afternoon.

First, English public schools in Quebec must be given the necessary support to maintain and expand access to and delivery of French second language programs to students across Quebec, whatever the student's level of potential. Our schools must meet the challenge, all the while delivering on their mandate to serve and support the English language, culture, and history that give meaning to the constitutional underpinnings that ultimately define our existence.

One of the tools we must continue to count on is federal government support through the federal entente with the provinces and its territories on minority language and education, and second language instruction. In this context QESBA signals satisfaction with the recent signing of a renewed five-year entente. We now wait the important signature of a parallel Canada-Quebec agreement.

The statistics tell the story about why French immersion matters. Our parents, our children have insisted upon it. In 2006, 66% of our elementary students were enrolled in one given French immersion model. Five years later that number had increased to 83%. In secondary schools 35% were enrolled in immersion or some form of intensive French second language program.

They were core French, enriched French and French as the language of instruction.

Five years later, that percentage has already doubled.

Second, early intervention in second language instruction works. In fact, the research on this point is irrefutable. Though some provincial jurisdictions have argued otherwise, we would nonetheless insist on this point. Our nine English school boards in Quebec together can point to an average high school success rate of about 80%. That is quite amazing. That represents the target set by the previous Quebec government for the year 2020 in their partnership agreement between the MELS and the respective boards.

Our graduation rate must continue to improve, but we would tell you that one of the factors contributing to its success is our student-centred and differentiated approach to learning, as well as our extra efforts on second language instruction. Our approach leads many of our graduating students to actually outperform their francophone counterparts in end-of-cycle and/or ministry mother-tongue examinations. Furthermore, many see their English mother-tongue writing competencies improve as a result of their immersion experience.

French second language education in Quebec's English public schools is supported by the active involvement of and consultation with our parents. Parents are demanding a range of FSL—French second language—programs and models at the elementary and secondary levels, which is sometimes difficult and impractical given our vastly dispersed schools and low population density, mainly on the Quebec mainland. But the fact remains that parents must be part of the portrait of our students if our students are going to graduate, bilingual and bi-literate, with the ability and the wish to function well as citizens both in French and in English.

Thank you.

[David Birnbaum, Executive Director, Quebec English School Boards Association]

Third, those of us who deliver English public schooling in Quebec need to know that our federal government and our fellow Canadians across this country understand some of the particular obstacles that we face in discharging our duties each day in the province we call home. The QESBA insists at every public occasion that our English school network is an ally in Quebec's legitimate and constant effort to ensure the future stability of the French language in Quebec. We are a constructive participant in those efforts.

Still, the QESBA and its member boards must continually battle against further threats to English public school access in Quebec, as expressed most recently by Bill 14. If our French immersion success story is to have further chapters, there must be a solid English public school network moving into the future. Our graduates are among the most bilingual of Canadians, embodying the economic and social opportunities that will mark our entire country's future. Our English-speaking community institutions, starting with our school network, must remain strong or that future will be compromised.

Each part of this puzzle must fit. If our French second language programs are not fully effective and if the system that offers them is not fully secure, the QESBA's member school boards will see a further worrisome trend continue, and that is the loss of students to French public and private schools. Statistics indicate that anywhere from 25% to 35% of English eligible students—and that's a restricted category already, under Quebec's French language charter—are not currently enrolled in English schools. For all of these reasons, the health of French immersion and intensive French second language programs in Quebec truly matters.

Fourth, we would conclude that the future of French immersion in Quebec is somewhat linked to its future in every province and territory of this country. Our circumstances are different, but the potential rewards are there across the country. Mastering Canada's two official languages must always be championed as a pillar of our economic strength and potential, as an imperative for national unity, and as a promise that each of us can choose to build our futures right where we live, be it in a minority or majority language situation.

Thank you. We look forward to discussing these points with you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you for that opening statement.

We'll begin questions and comments with Mr. Benskin.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you.

Thank you for participating in the study.

I'm going to be looking at dropout rates and the immigration aspect of immersion.

First off, I think you mentioned the dropout rate and said that you need to improve it. What is it now?

[Suanne Stein Day]

Our non-completion rate, averaged over the English boards, is about 20%. It's about 16% for the two largest Montreal school boards. That is not our dropout rate. It's the number of students who are not completing their education in English public schools. Our community that may be leaving Quebec for whatever reason, and those students who will leave during the course of their studies, are included in that 20%. Realistically, about 15% are staying in the province but not completing a secondary school diploma.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Do you have numbers on French immersion, in the immersion programs per se?

[Suanne Stein Day]

My school board, the largest school board in Quebec, is all French immersion to one extent or another. Some are 50-50. Some are 80-20. Between the two largest school boards, the vast majority of our classrooms are French immersion.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

With regard to the new arrivals to Montreal, first, how many of those families send their kids to immersion programs in the school board?

[David Birnbaum]

One must remember that's a small percentage to start with because our access to those immigrant communities that might have chosen English schooling in the past is very much limited by the French language charter. A very multicultural, multiracial mix remains in our schools, but new Canadians, for the most part, must direct themselves toward the French school system.

When you look at the dropout rate, which we're continuing to attack, I don't think any of our boards would tell you that we're allowing our intensive French language instruction to contribute to those kids not being able to find their way through. Each of our school boards has, as part of its mission—quite properly in Quebec—to ensure every child the full opportunity to render himself or herself bilingual upon graduation. Where the dropout rate remains a problem, I think we could probably say with some confidence that it would rarely be specifically because of a French program that was simply too difficult for that child. We understand that we have to do everything possible to accompany each child in their quest to master French.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

As new students, either Quebec-born or from parts international, come into the system not speaking French, how are they introduced into the system, as far as learning a language that is not their own and continuing their basic education?

[Christine Dénommée]

Different support measures will be looked at for any new arrivals, whether they're international or coming from abroad. Under the Canada-Québec entente, there's support for students born outside Quebec. Boards did receive additional financial support, and then we identify these students—and I'm going to talk about student enrolment figures after the September 30 registration. We look at those students, and special measures are put in place.

Teachers and principals are made aware of who these students are. I'm thinking at the school level. For a minimum period of two years, support measures must be put in place. We monitor them twice a year. We validate them through professional development, additional didactic material, in-class resource material, and even exposure, not only to the language but to Quebec culture as well, contributing to their being part of their community, their getting to know the community, and their learning the language.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you.

Do I still have time?

From your perspective within that process, other than what you've already presented in terms of fiscal support and so forth, what do you feel is the most difficult aspect of transitioning beginners in the immersion program, as far as adapting to the program and ensuring a successful transition?

[Christine Dénommée]

I guess the pedagogical link.

I will apologize if I switch to French. As you will notice from the accent on my name, I am a francophone, so sometimes words will come out in different languages, but I do work for the anglophone school board.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

You may speak in French, if you wish.

[Christine Dénommée]

It really depends on the age of the learner. Research has told us that the age, intensity, and frequency...the earlier on a student can join us....

If the newcomer is in kindergarten or in cycle one, as we refer to grades one and two at the elementary level, as you can understand, flexibility of the brain will allow those students to acquire much more and be able to do what we call le transfert des acquis, to be able to pass that knowledge and competency from one language to the other.

As we only have end-of-cycle examinations, I have to make sure they always look for people who understand. For example, in grade two, grade four, or grade six examinations, we have a much larger scope and we're not looking at giving students a high school diploma by grade four. So we have more time to make sure that the transfer of abilities and competencies gets into place. The support measures are there. Even after the two-year span that I was telling you about, adaptation measures will still be put into place by the school team to ensure that students continue to progress.

However, we'll be honest. If a student arrives from abroad or a family moves into Montreal and they are eligible for English instruction, but they arrive, for example, in grade three, cycle two of secondary, as you will know the time spent to acquire and feel comfortable with the knowledge is lessened because we will finish by secondary five. We'll have a two-year or three-year span where we'll still have support measures and adaptations put into place, but we have those ministry examinations that have to be done. At times we do ask for derogations from our minister, but they're not always granted. It's done on a case-by-case basis and students do need a number of credits in certain subjects, including French, to be able to graduate with a high school leaving diploma.

Many of our international students continue with us and enrol in what we call our CEGEP programs or post-secondary. So we have to ensure that in terms of the measures we put into place, yes, there are financial supports, there are adaptations, and they are continuous and sustained to ensure that our students are successful long after they have completed their high school studies.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much, Mr. Benskin and Madam Dénommée.

Monsieur Gourde.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being with us today.

Ms. Dénommée, I was very impressed by your program, as well as by the way you handle very young students in terms of the evaluation. Success, measured by the number of students who pass their classes, might be linked to it.

Could you give me more details about that? Some francophone school boards could perhaps benefit from this kind of follow-up.

[Christine Dénommée]

I'm on again. My apologies.

I'll talk about models and programs, if you'll allow me.

Since you spoke to me in French, I will answer you in French.

For the first six years in grade school, we refer to a teaching model, because they are departmental programs. They can therefore be found at the secondary school level. In grade school, the program offered in anglophone schools is called “second language core French”. Most of the teaching in the first six years of grade school — or seven, if one includes kindergarten — is in English. There are a few subjects, including French, that are taught within an English language context.

However, as was pointed out earlier, one can talk about partial or total immersion in the case of many subjects. Just like my francophone colleagues from francophone school boards, who can only teach English in English, we can only teach

English language arts

in English as well. It's the same for other subjects. It's a privilege, and I dare to hope that we will preserve this delightful gift for the future. It allows young people to expand their vocabulary, to make transfers, and to adapt both syntactical and phonological structures. We're talking about phonological awareness from a young age. It's very important. When a young person learns a second language at a young age, from the end of the second cycle — therefore, at the end of grade four — gains can be observed.

Children will often use both English and French words. That's when people may say that they are mixing things up. They separate them, but afterwards, both official languages are used, depending on vocabulary and the subject matter being taught.

In grade school, we really talk about a model. It's possible, particularly with a classroom teacher, and, in many cases, a few specialist support teachers, to access resources and provide accommodations to ensure that a student, whether a newcomer or someone whose second language is not currently French, does acquire these skills, be it through oral communication, reading or writing.

[David Birnbaum]

You will note that one of our assets is this interest on the part of parents. We believe it may be similar to what is happening in French-language school boards where people speak their mother tongue. Given where we live and parents' concerns with their children growing up in Quebec, they are motivated. This is not coercion. Obviously there is everything else that is required when dealing with young students in a school. However, from the start, specifically with respect to intensive French-language or immersion programs, they are motivated.

We would like to mention — from what we gather we are dealing with French-language teaching as a whole, even though French immersion is the focus — one matter that concerns us, a challenge. According to Statistics Canada there is a target in Quebec that one could call

almost an anglophone underclass.

These are regions, or perhaps areas more specifically in the case of Montreal, where parents, often living in poor neighbourhoods, have not had an opportunity to improve their own French and therefore do not necessarily pass on a desire to learn French to their children or an understanding of the need to learn it. These are challenges for us. First off it is a challenge to encourage them to register for more intensive programs and, second, to have them understand how important French is in Quebec. That is where strategies like those mentioned by Ms. Dénommée take on even more importance.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Gourde.

Mr. Dion, you have the floor.