Official Languages Committee on May 7th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Welcome to the 79^th meeting of the Standing Committee on Official Languages on this Tuesday, May 7, 2013. Pursuant to Standing Order 108, we are studying second official language immersion programs in Canada.

We have the following witnesses with us today: Mr. Leclair, from the Canadian Association of Second Language Teachers, whom I welcome, and Ms. Kenny and Mr. Quinty, from the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada.

We'll begin with an opening statement from Monsieur Leclair.

[Guy Leclair, Executive Director, Canadian Association of Second Language Teachers]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair and committee members, thank you very much for your invitation. The President and Vice-President of the Canadian Association of Second Language Teachers, or CASLT, cannot be here today and send their regrets.

CASLT is a non-profit organization whose mission is to promote excellence in second-language instruction in Canada. Its organizational structure, through which it represents every province and territory, supports its 3,000 members and the second language communities in the following fields: professional development, teaching material, professional information, research and information distribution as well as the promotion and advocacy of its members' interests.

The demand for access to immersion programs exceeds supply. This situation creates many challenges. The first observation I would like to make is that there is a need to increase the number of immersion programs as part of the introduction of compulsory English and French as a second language programs in Canada. CASLT invites the federal, provincial and territorial governments to work toward that end with the appropriate authorities, such as the Council of Ministers of Education, Canada.

We also invite the government to establish a second language learning promotion campaign that would emphasize the benefits of learning Canada's two official languages and would aim to inform parents, students, the general public, newcomers to Canada, school principals, administrators and decision-makers about access to second language programs. I am thinking, for example, of the inclusion of allophone students and students with learning disabilities in those programs.

We believe that, by showing in this way that second languages are important for Canadian society, the federal government would support demand for access to and the creation of second language programs.

In addition to an increase in the number of second language programs and teachers, including guidance councillors, teachers' assistants and other related staff, there is a concern for program quality. Research projects must be carried out in the faculties of education in co-operation with teachers to compare the various methods and identify best practices. For example, although immersion students manage to develop a degree of ease in communicating in their second language, they lack precision in their oral delivery. Errors are often not corrected in class.

We can also look at the effectiveness of the various entry points or the effectiveness of intensive French. Research in those fields would prove useful. That work must then be used to enlighten and inform young teachers graduating from the faculties of education. Teacher training programs must be kept up to date. Teaching how to use the Canadian Language Portfolio for Teachers, which is produced by CASLT, plus courses on new technologies, inclusion, interculturalism and so on would improve second language programs.

Teacher training issues include the language skills of teaching staff, knowledge of living language teaching methods, professional development and professional status. Language teachers are marginalized relative to teachers of other subjects. To address these issues, the second language teaching profession must be promoted and programs must be introduced to meet the needs of the profession.

There is also a shortage of teaching resources and educational material. Resources that are more relevant to students and based on new technologies, social media and the labour market would also help teachers, particularly the youngest ones.

Professional training is at the top of the list of teachers' priority needs. Organizations such as the Canadian Association of Immersion Teachers, or CAIT, and our organization, CASLT, offer various types of professional development: workshops, presentations, videos, podcasts and so on. However, if we do not reach several hundreds of teachers every year, getting to all 35,000 second language teachers in Canada will become a difficult task, particularly considering the number of themes that must be addressed, such as inclusion, the Common European Framework of Reference for Languages, social media and so on.

The school boards and divisions must be made aware of these issues and be supported in maintaining high quality second language programs. CASLT has prepared a publication entitled Leadership for Successful FSL Programs as a guide for stakeholders.

Improving second language programs goes hand in hand with student performance and retention.

Student surveys confirm that students often feel uncertain about their language skills. Adopting a common framework of reference for languages, like the Common European Framework of Reference for Languages, would address that situation in part. This kind of framework puts more emphasis on independence and self-learning, using a language portfolio and passport and so on, and less on test-taking so that students feel better equipped to continue learning the language beyond high school.

For students, the benefit of having an accurate idea of their level of bilingualism based on an internationally recognized scale would help them gauge their learning in the real world, become more interested in learning their second language, develop confidence in their skills and promote themselves more effectively to potential employers in Canada and internationally.

According to a 2005 student survey conducted by Canadian Parents for French on ongoing learning of French as a second language at university, 44% of immersion students and 18% of students in core French programs decided to continue taking French courses at university after high school.

For example, initiatives such as the University of Ottawa's French immersion studies program demonstrate the postsecondary potential of second language learners. More opportunities of this kind would be welcome. Incidentally, 30% of students registered in the University of Ottawa's French immersion studies program come from core French programs. Consequently, no one should underestimate the potential of that program or of the intensive French program in second language instruction in Canada. The core program needs some improvements, of course, but it is a good program that needs to be reanalyzed, revised, improved and redeployed.

In closing, our recommendations are as follows.

First, promote coordination and leadership in order to establish a common framework of reference for languages or to promote the adoption of such a framework. The Canadian Association of Second Language Teachers is prepared to take on that role. However, the co-operation of Canadian Heritage and the Council of Ministers of Education, Canada, or CMEC, is essential, as is the co-operation of several other stakeholders in the second language instruction field.

Second, promote and show political and government support through a national strategy to introduce second language programs, including the provision of incentives to the provinces and territories making second language programs compulsory.

Third, introduce a promotion and information strategy targeting parents, students, the general public and newcomers as well as school boards, management and decision-makers to inform those stakeholders about access to second language programs.

Fourth, fund linguistic and cultural exchange, enrichment and training programs for teachers.

Fifth, mandate the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council to encourage research and the dissemination of research findings on the acquisition, teaching and evaluation of second languages and on teacher training by offering research grants in those fields.

Sixth, promote research popularization projects to encourage the distribution of research findings and practical classroom-based material through new technologies, such as the creation of a virtual professional learning community.

Seventh, encourage faculties of education to enrich their second language teacher training programs by adding elements set out in the skills profile developed by CASLT, encouraging teacher trainers to use the Canadian Language Portfolio for Teachers as a professional growth tool and by collaborating with each other using new technologies.

Eighth, encourage the universities to raise the profile of the second language teaching profession and to offer exchange programs and university internships and organize recruitment campaigns.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you for your recommendations, Mr. Leclair.

I now hand the floor over to Ms. Kenny.

[Marie-France Kenny, President, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada]

Good afternoon and thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ladies and gentlemen, it is always a pleasure to be here. I feel as though I have been given a free pass to come and meet with you, like on Guy A. Lepage's program. Our organization appreciates that very much.

First of all, I want to thank you for inviting us to testify before you today about French immersion programs. From the outset, I will admit quite candidly that immersion is not one of the federation's areas of activity. Consequently, our expertise in the field is quite limited.

However, the advancement of French and linguistic duality is one of our fields of activity and part of our expertise. That is why we are interested in issues related to French immersion. We also maintain contact with organizations such as Canadian Parents for French, Canadian Youth for French and the Canadian Association of Immersion Teachers, and rightly so: I am fond of saying that a francophone is a person who has chosen to live part of his or her life in French. That obviously includes immersion students.

The issue for us at the FCFA is not just protecting French, but also sharing it with as many Canadians as possible. In my remarks, I would like to discuss some aspects of your study such as the relevance, added value and accessibility of immersion programs.

With regard to added value, first let us talk about the validity of learning French as a second language. In the excellent open letter that the Commissioner of Official Languages, Graham Fraser, issued to the media on April 8, he named all the people in the federal government who are fluently bilingual: the Prime Minister of Canada, the majority of provincial premiers, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, the Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages, the Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism, the chair of this committee, most members of this committee, and others.

In other words, if we are looking for a tangible example of the added value of second language learning, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, as it were. Furthermore, as Mr. Fraser says, French in Canada is the language of ambition. It is a good bet that the future will feature a steadily growing cohort of bilingual young professionals prepared to take on key positions in the government, in our major businesses and in other organizations in Canadian society. I hope it does in any case.

The added value of immersion and second language learning programs does not stop there. You know as well as I do that we are living in an increasingly diverse and multicultural country. In the circumstances, our two official languages are becoming a tool that suits us, that enables us to understand more clearly what it is to be Canadian, because they are central to the Canadian experience. Many new Canadians know this, judging from the popularity of second language courses offered by the Alliance française in Vancouver, particularly to young Asian Canadians.

When the FCFA appeared before this committee as part of its study on the 150^th anniversary of Confederation, I emphasized that we often feel that Canadian society consists of groups that, owing to distance or different backgrounds, do not have a chance to talk to each other and understand each other. Ensuring that all Canadians who wish to learn their second official language can have the opportunity to do so is an investment in the Canadian collective "we".

That leads me to talk to you about the accessibility of immersion and second language learning programs. Others will do a better job than I of telling you in detail about the issues and challenges involved. However, I would like to bring two points to your attention.

First of all, the capacity of immersion schools to meet ever-increasing demand remains limited. Allow me to cite a report by Canadian Parents for French of British Columbia and Yukon that was published last month:

Demand for French immersion programs continues to outstrip capacity in many communities. School districts continue to mitigate FSL program capping in a variety of ways including: enrolment lotteries and early morning registration that has forced some parents to camp overnight.

If my memory serves me, Minister Moore himself said he had camped out all night so that he could register his nephews and nieces at an immersion school.

In the Toronto area, waiting lines for available places often form up two days in advance. In February, The StarPhoenix of Saskatoon reported that two more schools would be offering immersion programs to relieve the pressure on other schools that, in some cases, were at 120% of capacity.

One of the solutions to this problem is greater accountability for federal government transfer payments to the provinces and territories for education. Currently, it is virtually impossible to determine with any precision how those funds are used. However, if we consider the example of Yukon, which invested in French immersion funding that was supposed to go to instruction in French as a first language, it is questionable whether the federal government contribution is universally being used for its intended purpose.

For that reason, we would like the committee to recommend in its report that the government include accountability mechanisms in the language clauses of those transfer agreements. After all, taxpayers' money is at stake.

Second, those who manage to secure a space often wind up at the end of their French immersion journey with few opportunities for postsecondary education in both official languages. By ensuring that there is a continuum, across the country, enabling young English Canadians to study in both languages at college and at university, we will guarantee our country a generation of bilingual young professionals capable of picking up the political, economic and social reins of our society.

Thank you. I am now ready to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Ms. Kenny.

I understand that Monsieur Quinty has to leave at 4:30, which is all right, but if you have questions for Mr. Quinty in particular, make sure you get them to him before he departs at 4:30.

Without further ado, we'll begin with Monsieur Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I should have asked this at the start of the meeting, Mr. Chair, but will the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration be appearing before the committee? Have you spoken with him?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

We have not yet received a response from Mr. Kenney.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

All right, thank you.

I would like to welcome Ms. Kenny, Mr. Quinty and Mr. Leclair, who are appearing here today.

There are immersion schools everywhere across the country. What we hear, and what I think you yourselves are saying, is that, first, there are not enough schools and not enough institutions. There is also a shortage of professors and teachers, but it goes beyond that. Their skills are at issue. That is what we hear. What could the federal government do about that? We know that education is a provincial jurisdiction, and that is always a delicate matter. At the same time, we are all part of the same country, but this is a jurisdiction that belongs to the provinces. At the federal level, part VII of the Official Languages Act does not provide for the introduction of programs or state what should be done about immersion, but government representatives are at least able to promote it and to invest money. That is what is important. Money can accomplish a lot of things in a situation like this.

More specifically, what could the federal government do to help the provinces or even to help promote these programs? Some provinces are not completely involved. What could it do to emphasize the importance of this issue?

Mr. Leclair, I would like to hear what you have to say on the subject.

[Guy Leclair]

I believe the federal government could do a number of things. The first is to promote a common framework. CASLT promotes a common framework for teachers. At the political level, however, the idea would be to have a national policy on targets, to adopt the same language concerning language skills, the same tools based on the same research and on the same concepts, which would make it possible to speak a common language with regard to teacher training and language evaluation. This will require a joint effort by the federal government and each province. That is the first thing. The point is to ensure that a student who finishes high school in Yukon understands what he or she knows and is able to identify it as being at the same level as that of someone from Nova Scotia or New Brunswick.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

All right, but I began my question by saying that this is a provincial jurisdiction. How can we do that?

[Guy Leclair]

Yes, that is it.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I cannot impose it.

[Guy Leclair]

No. That is why we are talking about a—

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

But when we talk about working, are we talking about working together with the ministries of education across the country? Is the idea to sit down together and identify needs? For example, the federal government is the biggest employer in Canada that needs bilingual people. Promote that fact, of course, but in the universities. You do not stop at grade 12. The university should continue as well. We hear a lot of people say: "We finished grade 12; we get to university and there is no more immersion; there is nothing. We take the course, we graduate and we do not speak the other language enough."

[Guy Leclair]

Precisely. That is somewhat what I am saying in the recommendations. We need an awareness campaign. A lot of people talk about that.

There are myths that must be debunked. For example, there is the myth that, if you learn a second language, you will lose your first. That is completely false. A lot of myths have to be debunked. We need an information and promotion campaign stating that it is good to learn two languages, to learn three or four. It would also state that the more languages you learn, the easier it is to learn another.

It is messages like these that we have to convey. That obviously has to be done across Canada. This is really a cross-Canada undertaking.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Ms. Kenny, what do you think?

[Marie-France Kenny]

I think it is obvious. The federal government transfers major funding to the provinces and territories for immersion, French-language education and first-language education. We want to ensure that the money transferred for immersion goes to immersion and that the money transferred for French-language education goes to French-language education.

I pay for that. We all pay for it. I want to know where my money goes.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

You say the federal government transfers a lot of money, large amounts. Do you think it is transferring enough? That is not what the communities tell us.

[Marie-France Kenny]

We have heard that here. I think it was the Commissioner of Official Languages who put a question to a minister of education. I do not know which one it was. He asked him what he did when he received his cheque for French-language education. The minister answered that he allocated it in accordance with his priorities.

So it does not necessarily go where it should go. We have seen that in Yukon. The money does not necessarily go to French-language education.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

So that means that part VII of the Official Languages Act requires no transparency regarding the way the money is used for roadmap activities. It is the federal government's responsibility to know where the money it transfers goes.

[Marie-France Kenny]

What I am saying is that, first, the provinces must be accountable. That is currently not required. People tend to say this is a provincial jurisdiction. I agree, except that the money is transferred from the federal government. It is my money.

If you are asking for my opinion, I would say that, if you give me that share of my taxes, I will invest it in the school system I want.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

As you may know, Ms. Kenny, I personally filed a complaint with the Commissioner of Official Languages. I wanted to know where the money transferred under part VII of the Official Languages Act goes.

[Marie-France Kenny]

I completely agree with you.

With regard to education, if we ask that funding be transferred to French-language education, we have to ask the province or territory to be accountable. We saw this in the case of Yukon. The money was to be invested in French-language education, but it wound up in immersion. What happened to the money earmarked for immersion? Did it go to English-language education? We do not know.

That is the first thing in our minds. First of all, if we made sure that the money went to the right place, I believe we would solve a large part of the infrastructure and accessibility problem.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Do we know how much money is invested in it or not?

[Marie-France Kenny]

I personally do not know. I could not tell you. I imagine we would get the information if we requested it. I believe the committee can very well file a request.

However, I can tell you that, in a number of cases, the money does not go to the right place. That applies to most of the transfer agreements with the provinces in health and other areas. In short, greater accountability by the provinces would be appropriate.

Like the gentleman here, I feel like saying we have to increase awareness of access to immersion, access to French-language schools for rights holders and access to immersion for anglophones and allophones. However, before we do all that, we have to focus on infrastructure, as we just said. We do not have any. We lack access; we lack space. I would even go further; I would say we are missing a step. A lot of students drop out of both French-language schools and immersion schools. A lot of students drop out of high schools because they do not offer all the programs that are available in the majority language schools.