Official Languages Committee on May 7th, 2013

[Guy Leclair]

That's a very interesting question, and it's a very important point.

Actually, no, we don't. We usually try to work at a national level or a pan-Canadian level. There are provincial and territorial associations of second language or modern languages teachers across the country, and we work with them. I am not sure there have been that many attempts to do that. It's an interesting endeavour. I will take that consideration back with me and try to promote that as a way to do promotional activities in a strategy aimed at individual provinces. That might be an interesting way to approach the issue.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Thank you.

I'll also endeavour to get my office to look into what Ontario may be doing on the shortage. I always want to explore those options first because, as we've seen this week, even mention of the word “education” in federal Parliament causes some people to shiver, but I think it's important for all levels to be conscious and also to respect jurisdictions.

On my final question, if I may, Mr. Chair, there's also been a lot of talk about the benefits of a second language, which I certainly agree with, and I think we all do. Madame Kenny, you mentioned that in your previous response to a question.

What suggestions would you have for the federal government to do this in any meaningful way? I do think, as the official languages commissioner describes it, that a second language is the language of ambition and people. Certainly there are Canadians who do see that already. How do we reach beyond that group to other Canadians who may not have seen that? Would it be by advertising? Would it be through discussions in schools? Do you have any thoughts on that?

[Marie-France Kenny]

My first thought is to remove all myths that linguistic duality is very costly and bring forward the economic value, the social value of linguistic duality.

On advertising, as I said, there are so many role models within our country of what is linguistic duality. I can think of role models like Sidney Crosby, to appeal to the younger crowd, or Damien Robitaille, whoever, to promote it and say, “This is why I learned French and this is what it has brought me.”

At your first meeting, I was sitting at the back, and I believe you had somebody like Justin Morrow, from Canadian Youth for French, come here to talk about his experience. His is one of the most inspiring stories I've heard in terms of linguistic duality. There are a lot of people like Justin across the country. They could be poster children for linguistic duality. That's what we need to bring forward: what it is bringing to young Canadians who are bilingual, whether it's in the public service or in the private sector; what it has brought to them not just economically, but in terms of being open to other cultures and being able to travel abroad and speak French.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I had a little difficulty with Mr. Galipeau's question earlier. He began by congratulating Mr. Dion, saying that his question was good—

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Do you have a problem with that?

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

The answer was not right.

The answer seemed to suggest that it was your fault, Mr. Leclair or Ms. Kenny, that the system was not working at the federal level. I just want to recall that we have the Official Languages Act. An act is an act.

In fact, we are not the ones who requested this study, but rather the government. So if we have no business getting involved in education or immersion schools, we should stop the study immediately and vote on something else.

On this point, subsection 43.(1) reads as follows:The Minister of Canadian Heritage shall take such measures as that Minister considers appropriate to advance the equality of status and use of English and French in Canadian society and, without restricting the generality of the foregoing, may take measures to

That is to say that he has a responsibility. It is the government that has the responsibility. Then we have the following passage:

(a) enhance the vitality of the English and French linguistic minority communities in Canada and support and assist their development;

It is his responsibility to do that. That is in the act.

It also states this:(b) encourage and support the learning of English and French in Canada;

This is not done on the moon, but rather on Earth, in Canada. It also states that the government will encourage and support the learning of English and French in Canada. The idea is not to support it solely for the purpose of saying that the work has been well done. You need institutions, teachers, schools and someone to talk about it.

It also states:(c) foster an acceptance and appreciation of both English and French by members of the public;

It is his responsibility to promote that. That is in the act.

It also states:

(d) encourage and assist provincial governments to support the development of English and French linguistic minority communities generally and, in particular, to offer provincial and municipal services in both English and French and to provide opportunities for members of English or French linguistic minority communities to be educated in their own language;

(e) encourage and assist provincial governments to provide opportunities for everyone in Canada to learn both English and French;

We are not standing in a potato field. The federal government has a responsibility under the act that I have just read.

Do you think the federal government is doing enough, yes or no? If not, what specifically could our report contain to tell the federal government that it is not discharging its responsibilities, that this matter is not moving forward and that we want something else?

We have teachers asking for something. You have a responsibility to talk to them and not just to put a little program in place to tell them how people should study.

So, under the act, money must be transferred to the provinces to assist this, and it is up to federal government representatives to promote it.

Do you share my point of view?

[Guy Leclair]

Yes, absolutely. I agree.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

The law is the law.

In fact, not one province has defied the law. All provinces accept this act. So we are carrying out our mandate.

Go ahead, Mr. Leclair.

[Guy Leclair]

The demand for second-language instruction programs exceeds the supply. So there is indeed a shortage. If the provinces are unable to meet the demand, the federal government has a mandate to try to create more second-language programs.

We at least want to meet the demand. We therefore need money in order to do so.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Ms. Kenny, do you want to add something on this point?

[Marie-France Kenny]

Immersion, French-language education and English-language education are included in the transfer programs. If the provinces can disregard them as they wish, what is the point in talking about French immersion if we are going to let them do what they want?

I hear that negotiations may be easier with New Brunswick because there is a larger francophone population there. How can the francophone population grow if you don't promote French-language education, immersion, core French and intensive French?

It is like the chicken and the egg. Personally, if I send my young neighbour to the grocery store with $30 and ask him to buy me three products, I want to get my change and my receipt when he comes back. I want him to explain to me where he spent my money.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

One billion dollars has gone mission.

[Marie-France Kenny]

So I wonder why we bother to talk about French immersion and English immersion but do not demand accountability, if only on these matters to ensure that the money allocated to immersion actually goes to immersion and that the money intended for French is actually allocated to French.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Mr. Gourde, you have the floor.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

When I hear Mr. Godin, it seems that a cheque would solve all the immersion problems. I am not sure about that.

Mr. Leclair piqued my interest earlier when he talked about the leadership of some students who wanted to learn on their own. Today we are fortunate to have more advanced technologies than 20 or 30 years ago. Could Skype be included in courses, for example? My youngest daughter virtually learned English on her own. She had basic courses at school, but she asked me whether I had any CDs. I bought her some. She watched movies and programs in English.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

She is catching it?

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

She improved her English on her own. What she did is phenomenal because she wanted to learn. She assumed leadership and became aware of the importance of learning English. She did a lot of the work by herself, spending two hours day on it. Sometimes it happens just by watching films and doing your work in English at school. Today she is in grade 11 and is almost completely bilingual.

The same thing must happen on the anglophone side: there must be anglophones who want to learn French. Once they acquire a base, do they use today's technological tools to improve?

[Guy Leclair]

It is quite difficult.

The idea of self-learning in languages is not entirely rooted in Quebec society. People automatically say they are going to learn English. When I was young, I moved to Ontario and I learned English in two years. It was easy.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

You caught it.

[Guy Leclair]

Yes. I caught it. It did not take a lot of time.

One of our recommendations is that the government put on-line language training programs in place for both French as a second language and English as a second language. We understand that this may be somewhat unrealistic on our part. I imagine it would not be entirely welcomed by all the language schools. However, we think that should be something accessible and more widespread.

That is our recommendation, but it is not in our report.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Why do you say it is unrealistic? Perhaps it would take a certain amount of money to put it in place, but it is ultimately not much money if it can benefit millions of Canadians.

[Guy Leclair]

Yes, I entirely agree.

We believe it is a good idea. We are establishing a professional virtual learning community for teachers. We are developing it, and all teachers will be able to get the information and training they want to meet their needs. We want to establish a kind of virtual community where people can learn a language, such as English or French as a second language. That is entirely praiseworthy. We would like to see that put in place.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

But what would it take to put it in place?

[Guy Leclair]

It takes money, equipment and platforms.