Official Languages Committee on Oct. 25th, 2011

[Graham Fraser]

We are currently doing that analysis of identifiable progress. One example of progress I can talk about now relates to health networks, which received assistance under the Roadmap. That is a success story. There are other areas where that remains to be seen. We will complete our analysis before commenting.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I think we should continue to work together, because I believe we have made considerable progress thus far, even though we can do more. If I'm not mistaken, approximately 68% of Canadians support official languages. Is that correct?

[Graham Fraser]

It varies from poll to poll. The numbers are 68%, 72% or 80%. It all depends on the polling firm.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

The question asked—

[Graham Fraser]

Is—

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

So, there has been a major increase over the last five years, has there not?

[Graham Fraser]

That's correct.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Merci, Mr. Lauzon.

Mr. Harris, you have the floor.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you, I'm just going to jump right into it.

We were just speaking of investments. In the 40th Parliament, this committee undertook a study and spent $110,000 on studying the development of linguistic duality in the Canadian north. That study is incomplete as of yet. I'd like your opinion on how important you think it is that this study be completed.

[Graham Fraser]

I think the language issues in the Canadian north are complex and fascinating. I would be anxious to see that any work done by this committee or by other groups not go to waste, because I think it's a very important subject, and all the more important as this government and Canadian society in general is becoming more and more aware of the challenges in northern Canada.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you.

I've heard Mr. Gourde and you speak about leadership on a few occasions this morning. It's especially important with respect to

the deputy minister and the minister. What do you think of the leadership that is shown when the Minister of Foreign Affairs chooses to have unilingual business cards?

[Graham Fraser]

That's an interesting question. I must admit that I can't really answer that since we have not received any complaints about this. Unless the complainant discloses the outcome of the complaint at the end of the investigation, I cannot comment on something that is under investigation.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

In your opening statement, you said that you may follow the recommendations with respect to cuts.

Did you know that official languages are part of the $20 million contract awarded to Deloitte & Touche Inc., whose mandate is to suggest ways the government can save money?

[Graham Fraser]

I don't know whether that is part of Deloitte & Touche's contract, but I do know that, whatever the consultants may do, it will be the responsibility of ministers and the Treasury Board to make the final decision. That is why I voiced my concerns. My concerns prompted me to remind ministers that when all these recommendations and budget cutting plans come forward, their job will be to assess them and to ensure that the communities or government programs that provide services in both official languages do not unfairly bear the brunt of the cuts.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you.

In terms of specific concerns, what are the most serious consequences in your view?

[Graham Fraser]

There is no one item in particular. However, I have noted one thing. Let's take the example of a community that receives government services or uses certain services. If every department that delivers programs that have an impact on it is affected by 5% or 10% worth of budget cuts, the cumulative effect on the community will be far greater than 5% or 10%. My fear is that, by accident or by coincidence, a number of departments will choose to cut programs aimed at the communities without realizing that another department program will be affected. I am worried about the cumulative effect.

We talked about immigration programs. It is possible that a given program or a cultural program will be cut—I also talked about the health network. There is no one area in particular that concerns me; however, I am worried about the cumulative effect of these budget cuts.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Mr. Gourde, please.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Before I ask my question, I would like to say that I am sorry the Commissioner was embarrassed by one of Mr. Harris' questions. My view is that our time is too precious to be asking overly partisan questions.

A little earlier, you talked about health—

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

On a point of order, Mr. Chairman.

All members of Parliament have the right to ask whatever questions they deem appropriate and make whatever comments they wish. In case Mr. Gourde has not noticed, we are politicians.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Monsieur Godin has raised a point of order.

Members are free to use their time in the manner they choose, whether they wish to comment on other members' commentary or focus on posing questions to the commissioner. That being said, I'd ask that members address the subject matter at hand and focus on the issues the commissioner has raised in his report.

Mr. Gourde, please.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you for your answer, Mr. Chairman.

A little earlier, we talked about health care and, in particular, the Roadmap, as well as health-related initiatives. I would like you to talk about a specific initiative implemented by certain organizations.

We know that when you live in a minority language community in a given region—for example, the Anglophone communities in Quebec or the Francophone communities outside Quebec, in Manitoba or in any other province, and you have to go to the hospital, you may find yourself in a precarious position. In my opinion, giving people the ability to receive health care—or simply to have nurses or doctors who can speak to you in your own language to explain what you're experiencing—and allowing health care professionals to provide the best possible diagnosis, is an important initiative. I believe we paid particular attention to this in the Roadmap. Could you please tell us more about that?

[Graham Fraser]

Yes, that's correct. One component of the Roadmap which was successful, but which also showed its limitations, was a program that supports training. It is a training program developed specifically by McGill University for people working in the health care system in Quebec. According to the latest figures that I've seen, 7,000 Quebec hospital and health care system employees have taken this course. This has made it possible to provide frontline care in English to members of the community. As you say, the official language minority communities, particularly Anglophones in Quebec, but also Francophone communities, are aging communities with health issues normally associated with seniors. However, there are limits to what can be accomplished with this type of training program.

I spoke to an Anglophone from Granby involved in health care and asked her about whether she felt the program had been a success. She told me that it was very good, because it has meant that a nurse working in a CLSC is now able to put a cast on a young person who fell off his bike and fractured his arm. However, when you have a 58-year old farmer who is starting to show early signs of Alzheimer's disease, there are limits to what can be provided in the way of services.

As far as I'm concerned, this is an indication of the specific issues associated with aging communities, and I believe everyone is aware of that. In Quebec in particular, there is a generation of retirees who are not as bilingual as the younger generation. I talked to someone in the Magdalen Islands who told me that her mother calls her because she can't understand the social worker who comes to visit her. This young lady has to interrupt her work to act as a translator for the social worker who comes to see her mother. That is an example of the specific problems associated with an aging population.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Fraser. Thank you, Mr. Gourde.

Mr. Godin, please.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Royal Galipeau was of the view that all your reports talked about horror stories. But you do see departments where things are going well. In reading your report, I see that Canadian Heritage received a C rating. That is not such a great result, when Canadian Heritage receives a C. They talk about the As and Bs, but not about the Cs, Ds and Es that are also mentioned in your report. That's fine. They are making their usual sales pitch.

And, in terms of the horror stories that are never mentioned, we may want to talk about Fisheries and Oceans Canada and Search and Rescue in Quebec. They are the only Francophone offices in Quebec that will be moved to Halifax and Trenton. They are the only ones that are to be moved. And we could also talk about Services Canada in the Atlantic region. On the administrative side, it's not bilingual. It was under this government, Mr. Fraser, that it was declared not to be bilingual. And when it comes to National Defence, have all the issues there been resolved? There are violations in 60% of cases. In terms of Borden, where all the courses were being given in English, and the same for administrative services whenever people would come to request them, can you tell us whether those problems have been resolved?

Commissioner, I suggest that the next time you make a report, you should do half-and-half—in other words, talk about both the horror stories and everything else. That way, they won't try to sweep under the carpet all the issues with respect to official languages and we won't hear the government bragging about everything being great in the last five years. It says that this isn't political and that in the last five years, everything has been great and there have been improvements across the board. Yet there are still major problems in the community.

Minister John Baird has two kinds of business cards. He has a bilingual one and a unilingual one. It has been publicly acknowledged that he has a unilingual English card that he had made to distribute when he goes abroad. That sends the wrong message. That is why your recommendation should be passed on to the Treasury Board. Part VII should fall under the responsibility of the Treasury Board of Canada. Someone should have control over official languages, and I want to commend you on that.

When do you think the Prime Minister will respond to your report?