Official Languages Committee on May 23rd, 2013

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

I will answer your question by giving an example.

In 2006 we conducted a post-censal survey on official language minorities. It was a very detailed survey, the objective of which was, really, to understand the various dimensions that contribute to the vitality of official language minorities. We had five very detailed modules on education, so it was possible for us to ask parents why they chose to send their children to different schools and what obstacles, hurdles, or problems they faced.

That information was available for official language minorities. But there was an interest, way back when, in developing and conducting that survey. You have to understand that most surveys StatsCan conducts are funded through partnerships with the different ministries and departments of the federal government.

My point is that yes, of course, it would be possible to run such a survey to better understand the hurdles, the obstacles, the objectives, and the challenges. The only thing we can really do right now is use the data available, be it from the census, from the national household survey, or from administrative data collected through the provinces and territories, to get a better understanding of what's going on.

But you're totally right: we would need to run such a survey.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Corbeil and Mr. Chisu.

Madame Moore.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Corbeil, I would like to ask you some questions about statistics.

First, is it possible to extract the data by regional geographic zones in provinces other than Quebec? For example, we agree that the situation experienced in Dubreuilville, Ontario, is not entirely the same as that in Toronto. Is it therefore possible to extract the data based on smaller geographic areas?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

That depends on the nature of the data. Perhaps I can let my colleague answer your question.

[François Nault]

I do not think it can be done with the data we have. The ministries of education send us aggregated data on the number of students attending immersion schools. However, I do not believe we have infraprovincial details. Consequently, we are limited from the standpoint of the data gathered by Statistics Canada.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Consequently, for example, we cannot know whether certain geographic areas perform better as a result of social or environmental factors or whether the situation is better in the rural regions than the urban areas for a number of reasons?

[François Nault]

That depends on the data. With the census data we can measure English-French bilingualism rates by region and correlate the size of the French-speaking population with French-language retention or the bilingualism rate, for example.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Is it possible to structure the data more by geographic area?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

That would be a project in itself, but it is possible. For example, Statistics Canada's website contains information on small municipalities. For the National Household Survey, that depends on geographic regions.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

All right.

So you are saying, roughly speaking, that these data do not exist. So we would have to find them ourselves.

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

Bilingualism rates can be obtained for the various geographic units in Canada. However, if you want to take the analysis further, to try to understand the factors influencing or associated with higher or lower rates, you have to go further and conduct specific analyses based on the available data.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

With regard to variations in enrolments in regular second language learning programs, have any causal relationships been established based on certain data to explain what has happened?

For example, we see that there is a constant increase in the percentages in Alberta. Has anyone checked to see whether that increase is associated, for example, with growth in the number of immigrants whose second language is French, since they come from African countries that were colonized by France?

Can we establish any causal relationships between certain factors? Ultimately, have any measures really been put in place to improve the performance of certain provinces? If so, we would be interested in hearing about them. Is that increase simply related to social or geographic circumstances?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

That is an excellent question.

For your information, the data on interprovincial migration and mobility will be available on June 26. Of course, the reason why we are seeing this kind of growth in British Columbia and Alberta is certainly not unrelated to the migration of Quebeckers to those provinces.

That is not all. That is not necessarily the full explanation, but the population make-up and factors such as migration and international immigration of course have a role to play and can help us explain those factors. Further analysis would therefore have to be conducted.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

In other words, we are currently unable to determine with any certainty whether the increase is due to good practices or simply to social or environmental phenomena.

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

That is correct.

For your information, approximately 15% of children who have at least one francophone parent are enrolled in immersion programs. We therefore clearly have information on the composition and total number of students enrolled. However, we would also have to know, over time, to what extent the fact that certain students could have attended minority schools but instead attend immersion schools influences the increase or decrease in the number of students enrolled in immersion programs.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Have any qualitative statistical analyses been conducted to determine why parents choose French immersion schools for their children? If so, is it for the quality of the program or because one parent is a francophone or immigrant?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

The information is available for official language minorities. Earlier I mentioned the Survey on the Vitality of Official-Language Minorities, which was conducted in 2006, and in which we asked those kinds of questions. Unfortunately, we do not have that information on the entire population for which French is not the first official language spoken. Those types of questions were never put to other people, at least for statistical purposes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Ms. Bateman, you have the floor.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to our witnesses who are being heard on these issues.

Mr. Corbeil, my questions will also concern your data.

If I correctly understood the presentation of your colleagues who have left us, I believe that immersion programs are completely different from the programs given in the French-language schools.

Students who attend a French-language school—and this is of course the case in Manitoba—must have a francophone parent who speaks very good French. Is that correct?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

The parent is not necessarily required to speak very good French.

Under section 23, the parent—

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Yes, but the parent must be francophone.

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

Yes. The parent must be francophone.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

It seems to me that one of the programs is an orange and the other an apple and that you have mixed up the two in your data.

It is very important for us to develop other programs in order to increase Canada's immersion capacity. I very much respect the program intended for French-language schools, but there are also immersion programs. Where in your data is the information solely concerning immersion programs and the information solely concerning programs reserved for students from francophone families?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

Thank you for your question.

To clarify—

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

That is necessary not for the translation, but for—