Official Languages Committee on June 13th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Monsieur Gourde.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you Mr. Chair.

Minister Kenney, as Quebecker, I would like to hear more from you on the Canada-Quebec Accord on Immigration.

Would it be preferable to maintain the status quo, or is there room for improvement in order to deal with the new immigration reality we will see in the next 5, 10 or 15 years?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

We do not intend to propose changes to the agreement. Moreover, we would like to raise some issues with the Government of Quebec concerning their selection of immigrants which, in my opinion, does not correspond with the principles of the agreement.

On this topic, I would like to put a question to our NDP colleague who represents a riding in Quebec and who has just raised certain concerns. Is he comfortable with the following:

In Quebec there is the Investor Program. Each year Quebec accepts approximately 4,000 permanent residents through this program. According to all the data we have, including data provided by the Government of Quebec, out of these immigrants, over 90% of those selected by Quebec do not stay in the province. They do not live in Quebec and they do not even pass through the province. In fact, 90% of those immigrants settle outside of Quebec.

In short, I am simply raising the point that the authority to select economic immigrants through the agreement is intended for immigrants in Quebec. In fact, it is not up to Quebec to select immigrants for Vancouver or Toronto.

I think there is some skimming going on in the program, whereby Quebec is taking the money of immigrant investors and using it, but the British Columbia taxpayers must pay the price for the social services provided to immigrants selected by Quebec.

What I am saying is that we support the Canada-Quebec Accord relating to immigration. This agreement exists so that Quebec can choose immigrants who will boost the number of francophones in Quebec. This is not about taking money from Chinese millionnaires so that they settle in Vancouver.

I personally would like to raise our concern over the way the Government of Quebec manages this program. In fact, it is not up to the taxpayers of Ontario and British Columbia to bear the costs to support these immigrants, while Quebec cashes in.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

When an immigrant is authorized to come to Canada, to what extent can you ask the person to stay in one given province? The person is after all free to settle where he or she wishes in Canada.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

That is the challenge. Under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, there are mobility rights, so a person cannot be forced to live in a given province.

That being said, I intend to request investigations to counter fraud in cooperation with the Canada Border Services Agency. For example, if a person fills out Quebec's Investor Program form and indicates their intention to reside in Quebec, but then it later becomes clear that the person never had such intentions, then goes straight to Vancouver without even going to Quebec, that would be fraud. A message must be sent to the promoter of this program, particularly in Asia and the Middle East.

They take big commissions. I'm sure the NDP would be really happy to know that this program is making millionaires out of some immigration consultants and lawyers through big upfront commissions. By the way, most of that money is offshore; it's not being taxed by Canada. We are sending a message to those guys who, frankly, I think are knowingly facilitating a form of immigration fraud that the gig is up. We are going after them. We are going to take enforcement action against the promoters who are coaching people to make an application for Quebec so that they can get into Canada without any intention of living in that province.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much, Minister, and Monsieur Gourde.

Monsieur Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you Mr. Chair.

I will try to understand the situation.

Minister Kenney, a little earlier you said that no offices were closed. However, in the May 4, 2012 issue of the newspaper L'Acadie Nouvelle, we can read the following:

The Société Nationale de l'Acadie is concerned by the cutbacks announced in the Department of Citizenship and Immigration Canada.

The federal government recently made the significant changes to the administrative structure of Citizenship and Immigration Canada. The CIC offices in the Atlantic provinces, including those in Moncton, St. John's and Charlottetown, will be closed, and personnel will be downsized in those in St. John's and Halifax.

In addition, the federal government confirms that the Atlantic administrative region will be merged with that of Quebec. Therefore the regional office that was in Halifax will from now on be in Montreal.

So, is all of that false?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

No, not at all.

Perhaps this misunderstanding was due to the way I expressed myself in French, but a few moments ago, when I answered Mr. Dubé, I clearly said that there had been closures of CIC administrative offices. I believe I said that clearly. I said that I would provide the committee with a list of these closures. Perhaps you were not listening to what I said?

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

No, I was listening just fine. You said that there are only three people in the offices.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Clearly the error was due to my French.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

You said there were only three people in the offices, which is not a lot, and that they were not doing the job. I can tell you that they were doing their job very well. We were in communication with these offices for a number of years. At one point, we could no longer even talk to the people in these offices. Everything was redirected to Ottawa at the time of the closure.

Mr. Kenney, to be honest, you cannot even imagine how much these offices helped us, even if it was minimal, as you say.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I understand.

Mr. Chair, it was necessary to close certain administrative offices not only in the Atlantic regions, but in all regions of the country. For example, there were many more office closures out west.

There is a deficit. Savings need to be made somewhere, and one of the ways was to centralize certain services.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

A little earlier, you said that there had not been any cutbacks. Unless my French is not very good either, you said that it was more of a question of trips to Paris. However, in New Brunswick, an agreement was signed with the federal government in order to grant an amount of $10 million for the New Brunswick francophone immigration support program between 2008 and 2013. Fredericton is in charge of managing these funds.

The program has just been renewed by Ottawa for the period of 2013 to 2018, but with only $4 million, which is a reduction of $1.2 million per year. A flight to Paris is expensive. Organizations in our province are saying that it is an unfortunate decision, because these centres were starting to show results even if the number of francophone immigrants fell below the objectives. The government is so proud to announce that they injected money into the Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality, but that is not what we see on the ground.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Godin, you are mistaken.

I am not personally familiar with the details of these subsidies, so I will ask Mr. Sylvester to answer.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I would like the department to send this information to the committee. I still believe there has been a reduction. It went from $10 million down to $4 million. That is a hefty amount!

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

You are not looking for an answer from us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Mr. Sylvester, please go ahead.

[Peter Sylvester]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Some clarifications should be made in that regard. In fact, I already did so in a letter to the editor following concerns which had been raised with regard to potential reductions.

First, it is important to specify that the program which was administered by ACOA is being extended through fiscal 2013-2014. What this means is that the significant amount of investment which was made in the newcomers' centres and integration services will continue through this year.

After fiscal 2013-2014, the torch will be passed to the Department of Citizenship and Immigration. We will spend, and I already pointed this out in the letter, the same amount we did under the former Roadmap, namely $4 million on the newcomers' centres and integration services, so we will do so under the current Roadmap. Therefore, there really isn't any change with regard to the level of investment.

I would also add that under the Roadmap's new approach, there will be some advantages which will be very beneficial for New Brunswick. Amongst other things, New Brunswick will be able to take money out of the national pot and out of the national strategy for its centre. Of the $24.5 million amount which will be spent, for example, on recruitment under Destination Canada, we will be able to expand that recruitment. New Brunswick will also benefit from these opportunities.

In short, the fact is that there really will be no reduction in expenditures as compared to those under the former Roadmap.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Merci.

Madam O'Neill Gordon.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here. As you probably figured out, I'm just subbing today; I'm not usually a member of this committee, but I'm happy to be here the day that you are here. I guess it's the luck of the Irish in my being here. I want to thank you for being here with such a busy schedule.

I just want to refer to what you said about immigrants more and more coming to the east. I see that regularly in the Miramichi. People are settling there, and very comfortably. I have regular rapport with our community college and other colleges in New Brunswick. Recently there have been more and more immigrants studying at their schools. Regularly, every year, I participate in multicultural events that are going on in the Miramichi, and more people are attending each year.

You mentioned that the destination Canada job fair has become especially more popular in the last five years. I'm wondering if you could elaborate on what you attribute that to.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

At destination Canada?

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Yes.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Well, it's had a lot of media attention and a certain amount of buzz. In fact, we partner with a major French magazine called L'Express, which does a cover story every year on Canada and all the opportunities of working and living here. We're one of the only countries that actually does these promotional activities in France and Europe specifically targeted at francophone immigrants.

You know about the unemployment in Europe. Youth unemployment in France is well over 20%. In southern Europe, youth unemployment is in the are of 40%. A lot of young Europeans in particular are looking for opportunities to move elsewhere. They hear about the incredibly strong economy in Canada and they're attracted not only by the beauty of our country but also by the economic opportunities. I think the interest in visiting or immigrating to Canada is increasing, and that's why we get more and more attention there. By the way, Ms. O'Neill Gordon, it's not just through our destination Canada projects in France, Brussels, and Tunisia, but also in other areas.

I was in Ireland in October. I know your constituents of Irish descent would be interested to know, as would those of Mr. O'Toole—we'll get the Irish ghetto going on over here—that I was in Ireland with Canadian employers in October. There were 9,000 mainly young Irish lined up at a job fair, run largely by Canadian employers, to pursue opportunities to immigrate to Canada.

I know in this place we talk a lot about our imperfections, and Lord knows we have a few, but when you get away from this country, you see how people are clamouring to get to this place. We should all be proud of that fact.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

And I want to take this opportunity now to congratulate and thank Mr. Sylvester for writing that letter and retracting it, because I did have constituents who were concerned about the first article, and it did make a difference when it was made clear as to what really was happening.

The other question I had was that the “Roadmap for Canada's Official Languages 2013-2018: Education, Immigration, Communities” has earmarked $120 million over a period of five years for language training for economic immigrants. I'm just wondering how these funds will be distributed and who will be responsible for providing the language training.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

The funds are distributed on a per capita basis per province now. That didn't used to be the case. We try on an annual basis to adjust the investment in settlement services by province so that it is the equivalent of about $2,900 per immigrant, and then it's actually spent by non-profit organizations—we call them service providing organizations—with which we have contribution agreements that are arrived at following a request for proposals process. Basically, once every three years we put out a request for proposals. We say that we have this chunk of money and we'd like to receive proposals on providing language training and other services to immigrants. Non-profit organizations submit their applications. Our officials then score those proposals, often based on historic performance, and then they make the funding decisions. I don't interfere in that. They make the funding decisions, although I do, of course, have final sign-off, and then we monitor the performance.