Official Languages Committee on May 1st, 2014

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

The 150th anniversary is a key part of the mandate and what we think we should be doing for Canadians. As you know, we started that conversation with a number of meetings across the country. We put that into a book. We have offered our minister access to all of the information that we have so that if she wants to, she can tap into this, and actually help map out the kinds of activities.

I could update you later on, because I don't have that information in front of me. As to where we were, I think we've parked a few things just to see how these numbers fall and how these cuts fall, but the 150th is something that is germane. It's central to what we do, and we understand that.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

I'm now going to come back to my thing about education and engineering, and stuff like that. Clearly, you're going to be transitioning from existing infrastructure to newer infrastructure that you will need for the future. I'm really looking to see what your plans are in actually making that transition.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

This is a complicated question, and I'm not simply saying it's a complicated question to make the answer more difficult. We are literally trying to drive a car on the highway in the third lane as fast as we can to keep up with what's going on in the world and changing the tires at the same time because we can't park the car as all of these technologies are changing.

We told you a few minutes ago that people are still watching live television. More than 80% of Canadians, 85% of Canadians, are watching it in a linear way, so we can't take all of the infrastructure and shift it over. The timing, the metrics, the indicators that we have, and that we are following to make sure that when we decide that we're no longer over the air but we're all digital, for example, either on television or radio, over time—and we're talking years now, not months—are what we look at based on research of Canadians, based on habits, based on information, and based on new technology.

I keep telling people that in Vancouver at the Olympics there was no iPad. That was not 40 years ago; that was 2010. There was no iPad in the context of the Olympics, so that's why we can't decide that we're shifting too fast or too slow. That's our challenge. That's what we do every day.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

In terms of the funding model you are looking at against other countries, have you actually taken a look at how their geography and population is impacted, given that Canada is such a large country and is spread over such a large area with a relatively small population compared to many of these countries?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

The answer is, absolutely. In the context of the next strategy, we've spoken to 11 or 12 broadcasters at length. I have a special relationship with Mark Scott, who is the head of ABC, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. Of all the countries in the world, Australia is closest to Canada. It is a big country, populated on its borders, with important aboriginal roots, and with very important and dedicated immigrants. If you look at it, it is spectacularly similar to ours. They have challenges. We speak all the time. I'm supposed to see him in a month or so.

With the BBC, we also have a spectacular relationship and we share our research, and obviously, France Télévisions.

We can't think of the public broadcaster in Canada as being alone on an island. With the people that are there, we have constant conversations. We share our knowledge, our challenges, our breakthroughs. We show numbers. We exchange information on technology. We do this on a daily basis.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Madame St-Denis.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I would like to come back to the program Tout le monde en parle. As we know, that's a privately produced program. Is the fact that the show is so popular and is also being broadcast on the radio an economic advantage or disadvantage for Radio-Canada? I assume that you buy the rights. Is the cost lower for you because you're also broadcasting it on the radio? Is that beneficial? Could that contribute to regional radios, owing to the cumulative budget?

[Patricia Pleszczynska]

No, it's not an advantage. Doing that certainly does not reduce our costs. Naturally, we can't just broadcast a program like this one without some sort of packaging. Another thing to keep in mind is that there is no advertising on ICI Radio-Canada Première. The network is not a source of revenue. So we have to adjust by broadcasting the program during periods when ads are on television.

However, that's not a model for the radio. The radio turning into television without images is certainly not a model for the radio, nor is that our intention.

I explained to you the very particular context of that program. It's really only under those circumstances that, in our opinion, it was worth our while to test the model to determine whether this audience could be served in such a manner. However, there are no financial benefits to that approach.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Oh, okay.

Is there reason to hope that all those position and programming cuts in the regions you talked about are temporary, or are they final? Could those cuts be reversed through some changes in production practices, or is it all final?

[Patricia Pleszczynska]

The decisions we had to make this year are final. We had to make the difficult decision to abolish local animation on Espace Musique, and I do not see that decision being reversed. We hoped to carry out this project in several steps. We even hoped to add musical programming to the animation. However, we did not have the means to do so. Two years ago, when the DRAP was implemented, we had to cut afternoon animation. That's the last cut for Espace Musique in the region. We cannot reverse that decision.

The same goes for the regions of Quebec. We did not mention this earlier, since it does not relate to official language minority communities. However, in Quebec, we had to cut three Saturday morning programs and regionalize the Saturday morning programming. That's part of the very difficult choices we had to make in a context where the funding is not being increased. The radio generates no advertising revenues.

I feel that it is impossible to reverse the decisions that affect the regions and the radio.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Since national hockey is no longer being broadcast, have you thought about promoting television programs on amateur sports?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

As I explained a few minutes ago, the programs on our schedule are selected based on a large number of criteria. The programs' ability to generate revenue for CBC is important.

When we announced we would no longer pursue the rights for professional sports, we also said that we could no longer afford to broadcast amateur sports that cost us money. So if we were able to find a model that allowed us to cover amateur sports without negatively affecting our finances, we would do so.

Of course, CBC has covered amateur sports a lot over the years. That being said, this is another decisions we are making. We will provide less coverage of those sports.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

The last word goes to Mr. Williamson.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, again, for the opportunity.

I feel the need to raise a couple of issues in light of the support you have from the official opposition in particular about the importance of the CBC. Particularly after Mr. Godin's comments with respect to asking you to effectively censor one of your on-air personalities, I'd be curious to get your comments.

My view is that if there is indifference to the CBC across the country, it's because at best you're a network that appeals to only half of the nation.

Mr. Nicholls just read off some tweets from May Day. If we wanted to have this meeting yesterday, on tax filing day, I could have read off some tweets from outraged taxpayers when it comes to their tax bills and a desire not to pay.

I'd like you to comment a bit. One of the issues I have with the CBC is my concern that while you're committed to a diverse workforce, you don't seem to be committed to a diversity of opinion within your news gathering and your on-air commentary. I think until you resolve that, there's, at best, going to be broad support for the CBC in half of the country, and, frankly, indifference in the other half of the country.

I'd invite your comments.

Thank you.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

Monsieur Williamson, diversity of opinion, diversity of voices, is something that Jennifer McGuire, who is the editor in chief of CBC, and Michel Cormier, who does that in French, are focused on. They report on it on a regular basis at the board level and in the context of the indicators that we have through the programs and our journalistic standards. Diversity of opinion is what we think differentiates us from just about anybody out there.

It is at the heart of what we do with information. It's monitored. It's reported on. It's researched.

We actually ask Canadians, in the context of surveys that we do, whether they think we reflect diversity of voices. Obviously one has different opinions, and maybe one day I will be able to change your perception. But I can assure you that diversity of voices is key to the delivery of information at CBC/Radio-Canada.

Do you want to add something to that?

[Patricia Pleszczynska]

I will add perhaps simply that not only is it monitored, but certainly on Radio Canada—and I think it's the same thing at CBC—we have also managers who have been in fact assigned the responsibility of working with our teams to ensure that it is monitored. Every time that we have major events such as elections, outside teams are brought together, so that we have advisory groups, panels of citizens, who help us monitor the way in which we do our work.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

As you know, Mr. Williamson, we're the only organization in the country that has an ombudsman on the English side and on the French side. If you look at the rulings of the ombudsman, the ombudsman takes a very important role, and has a very important role in being completely independent from the system, and applies the rules, and when they see something that is not according to our journalistic standards, they will call us on it.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

I agree that on election night your panels come together from across the country and you bring in outside viewpoints. What do you say to the numerous critics you have who say that when it comes to political reporting, the CBC is just a left-Lib. echo chamber? There is no ideological diversity of opinion. I mean, I could go through the hosts you have here in Ottawa and highlight the Evan liberal, Rosie liberal, Terry über-liberal.

I'm not talking big-L; I'm talking small-l here. I think a number of years ago, a former colleague of mine, we worked at the National Post together, Ezra Levant, appeared before the CBC board and challenged it with, “Can you identify a single small-c conservative voice you have in your outlet?” I think they pointed to Don Cherry—and Ezra rightly chuckled at that because of course he was doing hockey commentary—and as you just pointed out, he'll be on his way out shortly.

Even by that measure, you're losing perhaps the one conservative voice you have in the outlet. Again, I'm talking small-c; I'm not talking a partisan Conservative.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much, Mr. Williamson. I'll allow Monsieur Lacroix to respond.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

Mr. Chairman—

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Point of order from Monsieur Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

There is a difference between broadcasting news and comments, and insulting people.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Godin, that was not a point of order.

I will give the last word to Monsieur Lacroix.

Monsieur Lacroix, go ahead.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

Mr. Chairman, I'm not going to go through—because we have 40 seconds—the different pieces of what we do and name people because I don't frankly know which colour, which political party, our journalists actually vote for when they are in their box.

Their job, and this is what differentiates us from everybody else, is to bring diversity of opinion, diversity of voices to Canadians—and to challenge. It's extremely important. Our managers know this. We have indicators that follow it, and when we feel that we don't do the job, we correct it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much.

Monsieur Lacroix, Madam Pleszczynska, and Madam Kinch, thank you for your testimony.

I appreciate all of the comments and questions from the members of the committee.

This meeting is adjourned.