Official Languages Committee on March 10th, 2015

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

That leads me to my next question. Can you explain to me how your organization works with the private sector to attract Francophone immigrants to your province? I'm interested in the role you play and the role that you feel the federal government needs to play, and also if there's a role for the province. I'm trying to establish who should be responsible for what and who is doing what, if you could encapsulate that for me.

[Ida Kamariza]

Thank you.

The reason we work with a private recruiter stems from our belief that the community should take charge of itself. We could, of course, do more if we received funding for these activities. The private recruiter has an agreement with employers. The company looks for qualified bilingual workers and brings them to Alberta. As a well-organized community, we assist these immigrants, on a volunteer basis, with everything right down to the small stuff. They feel close to their community. And there is no question that when they go from a temporary job to a permanent one, they stay in our community because they feel they are being supported. We also support them through the process of moving from temporary to permanent status.

You wondered whether the federal or provincial government had a role to play. I would say definitely, given that, as of now, we operate on a volunteer basis, so there is a limit to what we can do. If we were to receive financial support, however, we could do more. Employers are very satisfied with the program, mainly because they don't like constantly having to start over with new employees. When an employee has the assistance and support of their community, they stay longer and the employer benefits, as well. So it's a win-win for both parties.

If we received support from both levels of government, we would have a fantastic program.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Hayes.

I want to clarify some facts so everyone is on the same page.

Between 2008 and 2013, the Government of Canada provided $10 million over that five-year period to ACOA for settlement programs in New Brunswick.

In the following version of the roadmap, for the period 2013 to 2018, the government reduced that amount to $4 million and bundled it into a larger $29 million amount that was given to the Department of Citizenship and Immigration for settlement programs in New Brunswick.

It went from $10 million to $4 million, from the first roadmap to the second roadmap, and it was shifted from ACOA to the Department of Citizenship and Immigration directly. That's where the funding went, just so everybody's on the same page.

We will now hear Mr. Chisu.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much for your testimony. I listened with interest.

I have a question for the Commissioner of Official Languages of New Brunswick concerning your presentation. How is the Government of New Brunswick using Citizenship and Immigration's provincial nominee program to attract new francophone immigrants? How is the Government of New Brunswick attracting francophone people from abroad?

I know that la Francophonie has 70 members. I was born in Romania, so I know that Romania is part of la Francophonie and a lot of people speak French there. What did they do? They came to Quebec because of the nominee program. But after that, they left Quebec and went elsewhere in Canada.

My interest is how you are attracting francophone people and retaining them, because that is a very important thing.

[Katherine d'Entremont]

Thank you for the question.

I have with me a couple of documents that the department responsible for immigration has produced. I would invite you to consult the documents and invite the experts who may have authored these to come and answer those specific questions.

The government has implemented an action plan on francophone immigration further to recommendations by me, my predecessor, and I am pleased to see that the provincial government has set an objective of attracting 33% francophone immigrants by the year 2020. That is reflected in this strategy. If you recall from my presentation, recent immigration patterns have attracted about 12% francophones. Our population is 33%. The position of the commissioner is that we want to maintain the demographic weight. Because the population is not increasing, we need to rely on immigration to maintain the linguistic balance of our two linguistic communities.

I am pleased to see that the provincial government has adopted an objective of achieving 33% between now and the year 2020. I will remind this committee that about 75% of the control of immigrants is within the provincial nominee program and the other quarter is under the control of the federal government's programs. Again, I am not the one to get into detail about that, but it is a shared jurisdiction, as you know. Whether the funding is enough, I will leave that to others to comment on.

What I have asked for and worked on with my colleagues, both Commissioner Fraser and Commissioner Boileau.... We issued a joint news release back in October. I have personally met with Minister Alexander, and with our provincial Minister Landry, who is responsible for immigration in New Brunswick, to impress upon both ministers and both levels of government the priorities that we have identified in terms of making sure that our demographic balance is maintained.

When Minister Alexander talks about 4% and 5% across Canada for francophone immigration, that does not resonate in New Brunswick because we are aiming for 33%. That is one message that I want to make sure is clear here today. There needs to be a recognition of the specificity of the New Brunswick situation in terms of our constitutional framework, legislative framework, which recognizes that we have two linguistic communities that are equal and have equal status.

Immigration practices that perpetuate un déséquilbre, a lack of balance, in attracting immigrants is something that I have been alerted to. I have taken several steps to impress upon both levels of government that efforts have to be undertaken not only to rectify past imbalances, but also on a go-forward basis to step up these efforts.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

If you are achieving that immigration, the 33% and so on, what are your recommendations for the retention of these people? We cannot force any people. You know, “I'm coming to New Brunswick. I am using immigration. I am from that 33%, but after a while I am leaving.”

What is the recommendation you have for retaining, that you really have that 33% that you propose to have and they are not leaving?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chisu.

Madame d'Entremont.

[Katherine d'Entremont]

I have not yet made recommendations on retention; I have simply made recommendations about the targets that should be achieved.

I published my annual report in June of 2014. I did talk about immigration in the annual report. I will be talking about immigration again in my next annual report, so you may want to stay tuned for that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay.

Thank you very much.

Mrs. Day, you have the floor.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To reply to Ms. Rioux, who is unfortunately no longer with us, I would like to say that the point is not to put forward a partisan approach or to put anyone on the spot.

The Immigration Act, which was amended in 2002, has linguistic provisions in it. I would like to be sure that the decisions made under this act are in compliance with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. We are talking here about the equality of French and English as the official languages of Canada. That is a fact, a vested right.

Earlier we talked about shared responsibilities. We have this in Quebec. Since I have a riding office, I know that Quebec frequently accepts people Canada refuses for various reasons.

In her text, the commissioner said only 11.7% of immigrants were francophones, whereas 32% were anglophones. There seems to be quite a wide disparity between francophones, anglophones and allophones among the immigrants who arrive in Canada.

The allophones make up 80%, and they speak neither French nor English; do they all adopt English, or is it fifty-fifty? One thing is certain, and that is that the choice belongs to them.

I would like to know how newcomers break down along linguistic lines, based on the data from the studies.

[Ida Kamariza]

The allophones who immigrate to Alberta automatically choose to integrate into the majority. In my brief, I talk about people who come from Quebec. Allophones who have resided in Quebec have usually had the opportunity to learn French. In that case, they feel more at home in the francophone community because they do not have a command of English. They are then supported in their integration into the francophone community.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Do you know what percentage they make up?

[Ida Kamariza]

Unfortunately, I do not have these figures with me. I must say, however, that people who come from Latin American communities and settle in Alberta integrate into the French milieu. That is the case of the Colombian community, which is quite large in Alberta.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Ms. d'Entremont, in your 2013-2014 report you indicate that the federal government's efforts to increase francophone immigration were not sufficient to correct the current imbalance. You also say that this imbalance compromises the demographic weight of the francophone community in New Brunswick.

Can you provide more details on that?

[Katherine d'Entremont]

In preparing the report we noted that only 12% of immigrants are francophones or integrate into the francophone community. The results speak for themselves. The office of the commissioner maintains that efforts must be made by both orders of government if things are to change in New Brunswick. There have to be efforts on the part of the two levels of government.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Ms. Kamariza, I would like us to talk about the Express Entry program. As we know, French is the fifth most prevalent language in the world; English is the second and Chinese is the first.

Could you briefly describe for us the profile of people who arrive here through the Express Entry program? Are they francophones from European countries, or Africans? Where do they come from?

[Ida Kamariza]

That is a good question. Unfortunately, we have not yet had the time to assess this statistical trend. As you know, the Express Entry program came into effect in January 2015. The first draw took place at the end of January.

Quite recently, during the Day of Reflection on Francophone Immigration, this question was asked, but no one answered it. We are told that francophones are given preference, but there is nothing to support that statement. It remains theoretical.

When the first draw was held, I attempted to check certain statistics and I saw that these were all people who were already in Canada, and not immigrants coming from abroad. That is why we insisted that a francophone component be added to the programs for temporary foreign workers and international students, as they are pathways to permanent residency.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

The biggest pool of francophones lives in Africa. We know that, overall, there is a lower level of education on the African continent. With the Express Entry system, will there be as many African immigrants, or is there a risk that there will be discrimination?

[Ida Kamariza]

I would not speak about discrimination as such, but we are concerned that the program as it stands may not take this large pool of francophones into account, especially because of the recognition of degrees issue. That is why we made the following recommendation:

Conduct a comparative study of foreign training standards in the francophone and anglophone systems, which would look at the qualification chances that francophones now have under the current policy.

We have worded it that way because it is not official. It is subject to verification.

We learned that people of African origin had trouble having their diplomas recognized, and especially that the private organization that analyzes the equivalency of diplomas and would allow these people to get into the pool would consider excluding certain institutions. The word “francophone” is not used as such, but we are concerned that francophones would be a part of this group, especially those from Africa.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Very well, thank you.

Mr. Daniel, you have the floor.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for being here.

I have a couple of questions.

One of things you said in your recommendations, Commissioner, is to conduct a comparative study of foreign training standards in the francophone and anglophone systems, which would look at the qualification chances that francophones now have under the current policy.

Is there a method that they can actually evaluate education standards in the Francophonie and compare those with Canadian standards?

[Katherine d'Entremont]

I'm sorry, what recommendation are you referring to, Mr. Daniel?

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Oh, sorry, I was thinking it was your recommendation. No, it's Ms. Kamariza's.

Okay, but maybe as commissioner you can actually advise us whether there is an institute that will actually assess the qualifications of francophones immigrating to Canada.

[Katherine d'Entremont]

I wish I could answer your question. I'm not an immigration specialist and I don't know the answer to that question.