Official Languages Committee on March 10th, 2015

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Mr. Daniel, you had a question about recommendation number two for Madame Kamariza.

Ms. Kamariza, Mr. Daniel asked a question about your second recommendation. Could you provide some explanations about that recommendation?

[Ida Kamariza]

We observed that training standards in the French and Anglo-Saxon systems are not always the same.

I will use physicians as an example. There was a time when immigrants who had been trained in England or in South Africa would arrive in Canada and were authorized to practise, but those who were trained in francophone countries such as France or Belgium were not. We suspect that this was due to training standards. There is no reason for these people not to practise medicine, as the human body is the same whether in Belgium, South Africa or Canada.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Okay. This question is to both of you.

Can you explain what you think the role post-secondary institutions can play in the recruitment, intake, and integration of francophone immigrants?

[Katherine d'Entremont]

I'll take a stab at that one, at the role of post-secondary institutions. I think their role is vital.

I just want to tell you a little bit about New Brunswick. In New Brunswick we have a francophone university, l'Université de Moncton, with three campuses. We also have a few anglophone universities. We also have our community college system, which has duality. We have community colleges on the English side,

and community colleges on the francophone side.

New Brunswick being officially bilingual, we are well equipped with post-secondary institutions in English and in French. In fact I know, although I don't have the stats here today, that our post-secondary institutions play a key big role in attracting francophone immigrants to our province. I do know that L'Université de Moncton's numbers, in terms of attracting francophone immigrants, are quite impressive. I don't have that information with me, but I'm sure it's something that's readily available.

In New Brunswick it definitely is a tremendous asset for us in recruiting immigrants of both linguistic communities.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Is that to employ them in the secondary education system, or is it for them to train for different skills in Canada?

[Katherine d'Entremont]

I would not have data to answer that question, sorry.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Any comments, Madame?

[Ida Kamariza]

Post-secondary education plays a major role in francophone immigration as it does in immigration in general.

Earlier in my presentation, I referred to Canada's International Education Strategy. On page 10, this document states that: “According to Citizenship and Immigration Canada, within the next decade, immigration is expected to account for 100% of net growth in the workforce, up from 75% today.”

Let's have a look at what happens with Express Entry. Already, when the first draw was held, people who were already in Canada were the first to be extracted from the pool. This shows that these were people who had Canadian experience, which is a major asset in the selection; there were people who knew the language, which is also a major selection asset. And, most of all, they had received a Canadian education, so no comparison was necessary. Education thus plays a major role.

My sixth recommendation is to include a francophone component in Canada's International Education Strategy, which currently focuses on six priority markets: Brazil, China, India, Mexico, North Africa and the Middle East, and Vietnam. We feel that this is an important means of strengthening francophone immigration, especially since Canada's International Education Strategy aims to increase and even double the number of international students, which will increase from 239,000 to 450,000 by 2022.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

We will now hear from Mr. Gravelle, Mr. Gourde, Mr. Nicholls and Ms. St-Denis, in that order.

Mr. Gravelle, you have the floor.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm anxious to see Mr. Hayes become a permanent member of this committee. Obviously, by his comments, he hasn't seen Mr. Gourde's whip.

You'd better be careful what you wish for.

Ms. d'Entremont, according to an analysis by the Canadian Institute for Research on Linguistic Minorities, the vast majority of immigrants who reside in New Brunswick, that is to say 81.1% of them, had English as their first official language in 2011, whereas only 11.7% had French as their first spoken official language.

Could you comment on this and explain why, in an officially bilingual province, the figures are so different?

[Katherine d'Entremont]

There are probably several reasons for that, but I am not the proper person to answer you. I would invite you to put these questions to the immigration specialists.

At the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages for New Brunswick, we wonder whether the immigration practices of both levels of government—federal and provincial—are maintaining the respective demographic weight of the communities. That is the issue we are looking at.

As to whether there is enough money, and whether people arrive, leave or do not arrive, the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages for New Brunswick does not have the necessary expertise to answer those questions. We do not look at these issues. These questions would be better put to those who work in the immigration area.

In my opinion, the results are not very positive. I have taken some steps. I wrote to both ministers and met with them. I'm continuing to work with my colleague Graham Fraser. We have issued press releases. We have encouraged both levels of government to adopt a framework agreement for New Brunswick so that both levels of government can work together to increase the 12% figure, which has remained the same for several years. We have to attract more francophones so that this reflects the demographic weight of our community.

That is all I have to say on that topic. As to why this has not been a success, others besides me may have things to say to you about that.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Fine. Thank you.

Ms. Kamariza, in your presentation, you said that you had not been consulted. If you had been consulted, what type of recommendation would you have made? Could you explain that to us, please?

[Ida Kamariza]

If we had been consulted, we would have highlighted the fact that francophones are currently at a disadvantage in the Express Entry program.

As I said, there is the matter of the recognition of diplomas and the selection of unilingual francophones. People say that both official languages are equal, but the provinces and employers are not subject to linguistic obligations. These are concerns that could have been raised right from the outset. Solutions might have been found.

In fact, what the francophone community of Alberta would like to see is some official consultation so that together we may build programs that are effective and will be beneficial for both the majority community and the minority. I am sure that that is also what the other francophone minority communities wish to see.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

I'm going to read from a press release here. It's in English.

A program that assists businesses in minority francophone communities outside Quebec hire temporary foreign workers is to close after September 30. The French Significant Benefit Program allowed employers to recruit internationally without needing to apply for a Labour Market Impact Assessment, which entails job advertising obligations and strict auditing of the business making the application to hire foreign workers on temporary work permits. Workers brought to Canada under this LMIA-exempt program then had the option of staying in Canada permanently if they fulfilled the criteria of one of the federal immigration programs, such as the Canadian Experience Class. “This is unquestionably a big setback for francophone immigration”, said Gilles Benoit, president of the Coopérative d’intégration francophone de l’Île-du-Prince-Édouard.

Has this cut to this program affected either of you, and how?

[Katherine d'Entremont]

I said in my presentation that the public servants responsible for the immigration program in the government of New Brunswick have told us that it was a program that was helpful and useful to them in attracting francophone immigrants. That's all I have been told by them, and that is what I said in my remarks.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

So has it hurt the recruitment of francophone immigrants?

[Katherine d'Entremont]

That is what we have been told by those people, yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay. Thank you.

Monsieur Gourde.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Ms. Kamariza.

You seem to say that you have more success with the francophones from other provinces who immigrate to Alberta than with those who come from other countries. Let's talk about the retention of these francophones. Do those who come from other Canadian provinces have more of a tendency to return to their province than the immigrants who come from other countries? Is there a similarity?

[Ida Kamariza]

We have not yet done any comparative study of both categories, but it is obvious that very few of them return home, especially when they come from foreign countries.

As I was saying, we don't welcome many of them, but we receive a large number from Quebec. Currently we are studying new settlement methods for the new francophone arrivals.

We asked a consultant who is helping us to carry out a comparative study of the movements of immigrants who settled first of all in Quebec and then came to Alberta, and those who settled in Alberta and then returned to Quebec. Although the result is not perfectly accurate, it provides an indication. The data he was able to collect showed that 700 people from Quebec immigrate to Alberta every year and that 100 of these immigrants return to Quebec. So they do a reverse trip. What this means for immigration results is that there is an advantage of 600 people a year for Alberta.

It is just an indication, but if we look at the figures on the people we receive in our reception and settlement centres, we can see that we receive far more that 600 people, and these people stay here.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Francophone immigrants, whether they come from other provinces or other countries, go to Alberta essentially because there is interesting work there and good salaries. They certainly don't go to Alberta because there is a lot of French spoken there. Is it really economic immigration?

[Ida Kamariza]

One does not prevent the other. If we have this economic advantage, I think we should take advantage of it to strengthen our francophone vitality, because if we say that they come for economic reasons and do nothing, our francophone vitality may suffer.

Yes, there is economic immigration, but it is unlikely that that alone will allow us to reach the 4.4% target by 2023.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

There must be a few francophone entrepreneurs in Alberta. Do they take advantage of francophone immigration to hire more francophone employees in their businesses? Do they choose employees according to the skills of those who are in the market?

[Ida Kamariza]

All of the employers choose francophone immigrants first because of their skills. There is a reality, which is that they encourage francophone immigrants, of course, and hire them, insofar as they have the needed skills.

However, we must not lose sight of the fact that even those entrepreneurs work in an environment that is mostly anglophone. They do business with anglophone and francophone clients. So they cannot limit themselves to francophone employees.

That is why in our work to mobilize and raise awareness among employers, we target francophone employers as well as anglophone ones. In fact, even if people can work in English, they will live in French in our communities and strengthen the vitality of those communities, which is, finally, the primary objective of francophone immigration in francophone minority communities.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

You said that these communities had other networking activities, but is there anything beyond that? Is anything being done for culture, the arts? Are there community meetings, meetings of community associations for the purpose of strengthening the francophone community?