Official Languages Committee on May 12th, 2015

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Could you clarify how the office is funding that legal affairs branch? Is the legal branch a paid branch of Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages?

[Graham Fraser]

Yes. If you look at it within the categories that I described, that funding fits into the protection basket, if you like, rather than the promotion basket. It is part of the share of the funding that is dedicated to protection.

One of the elements I would underline is that because we quite often intervene in cases where the Government of Canada has intervened on the other side, our lawyers are not justice department lawyers. They are paid according to the scale established for lawyers inside the public service and are evaluated on the same basis and have the same rating, but they are not justice department lawyers.

We have seven lawyers, and the budget they have is a million dollars a year.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

So if I'm clear, Department of Justice lawyers, Government of Canada lawyers, are working on the other side, the appeal side?

[Graham Fraser]

No. In this case it is CBC and they have, at the Federal Court level, hired external counsel to represent them. Borden Ladner Gervais was the firm they hired to represent them.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

In view of the complaints that have come before your office, in your 2015-16 report on plans and priorities you set four priorities, one of which is to identify solutions to recurring compliance issues. Earlier in this meeting and in the previous meeting, we talked about Air Canada and the difficulty in getting certain organizations to comply with the Official Languages Act. How do you intend to tackle these compliance issues?

[Graham Fraser]

With respect to Air Canada, I had a meeting with president Rovinescu, the CEO of Air Canada. It was a constructive meeting. I was worried that a negative relationship between our two organizations had developed, and I wanted to clear the air. I found it a very cordial and useful meeting.

I'm also going to be appearing before the Emerson task force, which is doing a review of the Transportation Act.

In terms of other recurring issues, we are doing a study on active offer. One of the things we have noticed year after year is that federal institutions, quite clearly, have not integrated active offer into their culture of service. We want to find out why. We want to look at the best practices that exist in those areas of federal institutions where they have done so, those that have been successful, and look at how that situation can be improved.

You know, the traditional definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. We've recognized that there is a recurrent problem and we're going to try to see how we can do something differently to get some different results.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

In light of that quote, do you think that maybe something different to do should be your being offered more powers to enforce compliance?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Nicholls.

Mr. Fraser.

[Graham Fraser]

That's for parliamentarians to decide. It would involve a restructuring of the organization. It would mean having tribunal-like authorities. My own sense is that I am not the person to preside over a quasi-judicial tribunal. I have never asked for that power, and I'm trying to use all the powers that are now available to me under the act. If Parliament were to decide that the Commissioner of Official Languages should become the chair of a quasi-judicial tribunal, they would obviously need someone who had the professional training to play that role.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Monsieur Gourde.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks again, Mr. Fraser.

At the beginning of your presentation, you said that you would focus on Canada's 150th anniversary celebrations in 2017. A few weeks ago, Canadian Heritage unveiled plans for the 150th anniversary celebrations, plans that include a bilingual component.

What do you think the plans should include in terms of how Canadians can honour the reality of Canada's two official languages? In my region, there is an organization that wants to commemorate the arrival of the Irish in our region and their influence over the past 150 years. There are other francophone communities in western Canada that could do the same thing. There are now many non-francophones in communities of francophone immigrants that settled in the west. Many francophones have lost their ability to speak French, but their names remain. We know that many of the francophones who settled in western Canada in the late 1800s and early 1900s came from Quebec.

What would the office of the commissioner like to see in those plans?

[Graham Fraser]

I'm glad to hear that you will be commemorating the arrival of the Irish in your region. That's exactly the kind of thing we want to see.

There are two elements to consider here. The first is what I would call content. You mentioned important elements, such as the arrival of the Irish, the colonization of western Canada by francophones, the role that francophones and anglophones have played together and the history of linguistic accommodation in Canada. People tend to see the negative aspects of that history, but there are positive aspects too. Both aspects should be addressed in terms of the content.

There is also the element of presentation. We have already developed a manual for organizers of major sporting events. It explains how to organize an event keeping in mind respect for both official languages. We need to plan and collaborate with communities and in many cases with schools. We adapted the manual for organizers of community celebrations that will take place in 2017.

By planning and investing time and effort, it is possible to ensure that francophones and anglophones travelling across the country will be able to fully participate in these celebrations that give both official languages their rightful place.

For example, I would like to talk about what was done in Prince George for the Canada Games. A fairly remote community in the middle of British Columbia made a major effort to ensure that the games provided a welcoming atmosphere for francophone and anglophone athletes and their families. There were signs, manuals, announcements and documentation in both official languages. It was a huge success. Their best practices can be used by other communities planning celebrations for 2017.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Do you believe that the celebrations will provide an opportunity for people to feel proud of bilingualism? It looks like you have an answer ready.

[Graham Fraser]

Absolutely.

I strongly believe that Expo '67 in Montreal was one of the factors that contributed to the adoption of the Official Languages Act in 1969. That was exactly the same feeling of pride. That event gave us an opportunity to recognize that it was possible to hold an amazing event not just for Montreal or Canada, but for the whole world, while fully respecting both official languages. All Canadians were proud of that event, and it really opened people's eyes.

I truly believe that that pride helped Canadians realize—not necessarily consciously, but unconsciously—that it is possible to have a system that fully respects both official languages. I have high hopes that that pride can be rekindled even though the 2017 celebrations will be handled completely differently.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

With passage of time between Expo67 and the 2017 celebrations, the situation has definitely evolved, but what can we look forward to and hope for in 2067?

[Graham Fraser]

I must admit, I often find it hard to predict what will happen up until 2017.

In any case, this has to do with certain points in the annual report. Living in a minority situation is always challenging, and respect for both official languages in a context where two mainly unilingual societies exist side by side requires ongoing efforts. It isn't like paving a road or building a piece of infrastructure that we no longer need to think about once the work is complete. I am talking about the ongoing efforts that are needed to enhance the minority situation and support the vitality of both official languages in Canada.

I hope the issue of identity will be strong enough to ensure that the importance of both official languages is not called into question regarding Canada's future.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

We now go to Ms. St-Denis.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Mr. Fraser, it is philosophically stimulating to listen to you. Everyone agrees with you; however, let's come back to the budget.

There is a big event to prepare for, and yet your budget has been reduced from $24 million to just a little over $20 million in the past two years. Overall, this amounts to less than $1 per Canadian. In other words, every Canadian pays less than $1 to promote linguistic duality. That is why I find the situation a little disheartening, but that is the reality and what is being asked of you.

I have two questions. They both have to do with the budget, and not on my comments.

Does your budget allow you to reach all stakeholders in all regions that have minority-language communities? If not, are you able to do so only in large urban centres and in larger municipalities?

In addition, you said that about 15% of your budget is spent on legal proceedings. You talked about $1 million and $6.9 million for staff.

Do you think that is sufficient?

[Graham Fraser]

There is quite a bit of pressure in terms of the budget, which I will explain briefly.

You mentioned $24 million. Some of those additional funds were used to pay for the move to our new location at 30 Victoria Street in Gatineau. The Treasury Board gave us that money. It is an accounting exercise. In fact, we are using less space, but we are receiving the same amount of money, so we can pay some of that back, and it won't have an impact on our budget. On paper, yes, there is that $24 million, but it comes in the context of a long-term repayment program, since we are paying less for our rent. Given that it isn't money that we actually receive for our operations, it is an accounting matter.

Did I explain the situation clearly?

[Colette Lagacé, Director, Finance and Procurement, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages]

Yes, the exercise that paid for the move from 344 Slater to the new location at 30 Victoria Street can be considered an advance on parliamentary appropriations. We were given an advance on funding. Considering the space we have been able to save, it was negotiated with Public Works and Government Services Canada. Every time we negotiate office space, Public Works and Government Services Canada is the central agency that provides us with our office space and it receives the funds. When the commissioner asks for additional funds for office space for staff, 13% of every application for funding goes to Public Works and Government Services Canada to provide us with the space we need to carry out our mandate.

Since we have reduced our office space considerably, Public Works and Government Services Canada has returned $325,000 to us each year for the envelope for office space, and that money is being used to refinance our loan. It is not really a loan, but rather an advance on funding.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

What is the situation in the regions?

[Graham Fraser]

We have a network of regional offices. We have an office in Moncton, for the Maritimes, an office in Toronto, an office in Sudbury, an office in Winnipeg, an office in Regina, an office in Edmonton and an office in Vancouver.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Is there one in Montreal?

[Graham Fraser]

I'm sorry, yes, we also have an office in Montreal.

In Moncton and Montreal, all staff are located in those offices. In western Canada, there is the Winnipeg office, but we also have a satellite office in Regina. There is the Toronto office and a satellite office in Sudbury. Similarly, there is an office in Edmonton and a satellite office in Vancouver.

We have changed the purpose of those regional offices somewhat, in part because my predecessor realized that, since the people who work in the regions also live in those communities, if they have to investigate complaints filed in the region, they ran the risk of an appearance of conflict of interest.

We restructured and decided that all investigators would be based here, in the national capital region, and that the people in the regions would be mandated to do promotion.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Do you think the 15% for lawyers and legal proceedings is sufficient?