Evidence of meeting #5 for Official Languages in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was programs.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:20 p.m.
Superintendent, Curriculum and Instruction Support Services., Peel District School Board
That is one of the key questions we're taking a look at as we begin our review of secondary programs. It's really one of our key inquiry questions: what can we do to support you to continue your studies in French throughout secondary school?
We have some anecdotal reasons as to why students aren't doing that, but we're looking forward to completing the review so that we'll have some really clear data about why they're not doing so.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
4:20 p.m.
Superintendent, Curriculum and Instruction Support Services., Peel District School Board
Anecdotally, students have commented that their schedules become very full, in terms of their core selections or taking prerequisites for courses in university. Also, they've mentioned taking regional programs, such as school for the arts programs and such things, in which their schedules become very full. As much as they would like to continue in French, they can't take all the courses they would like. Anecdotally, that is our information thus far.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
Tyrone Benskin NDP Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
Okay. You mentioned earlier in your comments the difficulty of finding qualified teachers for the immersion program. That's not the first time this committee has heard that. We've heard it from organizations in the west of Canada as well.
When you are searching for these teachers, is there a teaching program or a teaching certificate specifically in immersion teaching from which you can source, or are there people out there who speak French and are teachers?
4:25 p.m.
Associate Director, Instructional Support Services, Peel District School Board
We're sourcing through Ontario universities, but in fact our recruitment goes countrywide. In Ontario, the qualifications to teach French immersion are similar to qualifications to teach core French—that is, having additional qualifications programs through universities not specifically in French immersion, but in teaching French as a second language.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
Tyrone Benskin NDP Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
Okay, but do you source right across the country? Do you source in Quebec as well as in B.C.?
4:25 p.m.
Superintendent, Curriculum and Instruction Support Services., Peel District School Board
Yes.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
Tyrone Benskin NDP Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
And you are still having difficulties finding qualified teachers?
4:25 p.m.
Associate Director, Instructional Support Services, Peel District School Board
That's correct.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
Tyrone Benskin NDP Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
My question is for Ms. Lalonde.
Are you aware of that situation?
I mean the limited number of qualified people to teach French immersion.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
4:25 p.m.
Director General, Association des universités de la francophonie canadienne
I often hear about the shortage of French as a second language teachers. I'm not sure whether the intention to increase those resources exists or not. But I do think that the smaller a region's French-speaking minority, the harder it is to find people qualified to teach French as a second language. I think that's the reality.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Michael Chong
Thank you.
Now we'll go to one of the three members we have here today from Toronto.
Mr. Daniel.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Joe Daniel Conservative Don Valley East, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, witnesses, for being here.
To the members from Peel District School Board, I would continue to encourage you to get people to start learning a second language when they're young, because I think learning a second language then makes it very much easier. I have both a second and a third language, which I learned when I was young. Unfortunately, neither of them is French. But having said that, I'm taking French lessons now, which is interesting.
My questions are mainly for Madame Lalonde, and mainly directed towards the post-secondary education side of things.
I am really interested in finding out what sort of fall-out rate you get for those who are attending university-level immersion courses. Is it more significant for those who have studied immersion than for those who are naturally French-speaking people, or not?
4:25 p.m.
Director General, Association des universités de la francophonie canadienne
If I understand correctly, you're referring to students' ability to do well.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Joe Daniel Conservative Don Valley East, ON
Yes, of those who pull out during the program because it's too difficult or—
4:25 p.m.
Director General, Association des universités de la francophonie canadienne
I don't have those kinds of figures with me. But I do know that, if we want students who have come from French immersion to do all their schooling in French, they need support services right from year one of their programs. Otherwise, they often shift over to English in year two.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Joe Daniel Conservative Don Valley East, ON
Okay, so there are no significant numbers that drop out of school, or you don't have the numbers.
4:25 p.m.
Director General, Association des universités de la francophonie canadienne
I don't have those numbers.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Joe Daniel Conservative Don Valley East, ON
Okay.
Do you have any numbers for them once they have graduated, as to how they compare with the anglophone university graduates in terms of finding a job and finding one in the profession they choose?
4:25 p.m.
Director General, Association des universités de la francophonie canadienne
I don't have those statistics, per se. But a number of studies have very clearly shown that individuals who have completed post-secondary education and who have the ability to function in both official languages are more likely to find better paying jobs very quickly.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Joe Daniel Conservative Don Valley East, ON
Clearly, the opening up of this new EU market will, I hope, bring many jobs in the commercial sector that also support all of that.
4:30 p.m.
Director General, Association des universités de la francophonie canadienne
Absolutely. With the various markets opening up around the world, I would say we're now a small village. In order for Canada to carve out a place for itself on the economic stage, it is critical to have that bilingual workforce.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Joe Daniel Conservative Don Valley East, ON
I notice from the flyer you brought in of all your various courses, there is a fairly limited number of engineering courses. I'm curious to find out why. Is that because technical French may be somewhat more difficult in terms of comprehension and execution in the technical schools and technical engineering work?
4:30 p.m.
Director General, Association des universités de la francophonie canadienne
I can't give you the exact reason. But I can say that the more specialized a university program is, the harder it is to offer the program across a number of universities, and that is due to the small number of people in certain communities. There is no way all the universities could offer those specialized programs. That's why we're trying to work together more at the university level: to make those programs more accessible around the country.