Official Languages Committee on Oct. 18th, 2018

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

That's informative. In education, we would call that a summary. An initial summary would list all of the objectives, and a second summary would outline the results and new objectives for the next period.

When can we expect to receive the report?

[Raymond Théberge]

In May 2019. It will be released earlier in the year than in the past.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mr. Samson.

It is now over to Mrs. Fortier.

[Mona Fortier]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'm from the National Capital Region, Commissioner, and I represent the riding of Ottawa—Vanier. I paid very close attention to the talks between the Ontario government and the City of Ottawa on the issue of making the national capital officially bilingual. I'd like to hear your thoughts. Do you think it's possible to strengthen the Official Languages Act as it relates to the National Capital Region and the meaningful role it plays as an officially bilingual city?

[Raymond Théberge]

The city of Ottawa is a very strong and powerful symbol for Canadians. It is the nation's capital, a city that should, in my view, reflect the country's linguistic duality, at the very least.

The bill passed by the province recognizes that the City of Ottawa's bilingualism bylaw satisfies the requirements set out in Ontario's French Language Services Act. I hope, then, that my provincial counterpart, François Boileau, will be dealing with the matter.

The preamble of the Official Languages Act mentions the national capital region. What I find a bit surprising is that Ottawa did not embrace the principle of linguistic duality on its own, before it was thrust upon the city. By the way, the municipality had access to funding to advance official languages but did not use the money.

How is it that funding to support the development of French-language services in the City of Ottawa is available, but no one applied for it. This is where the situation stands: the preamble of the federal act refers to the city's bilingual character, the provincial act officially recognizes it and the Department of Canadian Heritage has made funding available to support it.

[Mona Fortier]

Wonderful, thank you. I wanted to hear your take on the issue. I imagine that, over the next year, you might look into strengthening the role of a bilingual national capital, not just in the preamble, but also in other parts of the federal act. I would look forward to hearing any suggestions you might have.

Now, I'd like to turn back to the topic of immigration, something that's been on everyone's mind in recent years. As we all know, the previous government had set a target of 4.4% for francophone immigration outside Quebec in the economic class, but the target wasn't reached. We have a target of 5%, so we need to find ways of achieving it. The official languages action plan for 2018-2023 sets out significant resources, as well as an approach that is aligned with the target. Is there a vision or method you would recommend for identifying positive measures? We've been talking about positive measures for some time now. They could help not only to bring the target within reach, but also to measure progress.

[Raymond Théberge]

In terms of immigration, the simple measure is the number of French-speaking immigrants who settle in Canada. The action plan proposes a francophone path to integration for newcomers that starts before they arrive in Canada and continues until they settle.

Welcoming immigrants to Canada is an important element. I have lived in different regions and I can tell you that communities in different regions welcome immigrants in different ways. It is one thing to attract immigrants to regions, but it is another to retain them. It is important that all regions and communities benefit from francophone immigration, whether in Acadia or Winnipeg. It is important to attract francophone immigrants. It is therefore extremely important to raise awareness among host communities.

Ultimately, if francophone immigrants are found only in large urban areas, small francophone communities across Canada will suffer. The same is true in Quebec, where one of the challenges related to immigration is the accessibility of French-language training. That's a problem.

[Mona Fortier]

Thank you.

I'm done, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mrs. Fortier.

Mr. Généreux, you have the floor.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Commissioner, I would like to come back to the modernization of the Official Languages Act.

On page 11 of your report, it is mentioned that in November 2016, the government announced its decision to review the Official Languages Act. There are two paragraphs that talk about discussions, preliminary consultations, reflections that need to be considered, an expert advisory group. After that, we are still talking about informal consultations, exchanges and so on.

This government is a master at consulting, but it does not always act. That is what we are seeing with the court challenges program, which was announced a year and a half ago. A year and a half later, a group of experts has still not been formed.

In 2019, it will be the 50th anniversary of the Official Languages Act, but it is clear that the act will not yet have been amended, given that there are about eight months left before the next election is unofficially called.

What is the state of play? Do you think the government could give itself a timetable for modernizing the act?

[Raymond Théberge]

It is up to the government to set a timeline. Given all the work that has been done to date and the fact that the Senate committee will be tabling its study in May, we will certainly have completed our work, and our position will be very clear. The FCFA and QCGN will also have done their job.

This does not require a very broad new consultation. This is optimistic, but I would like to see the modernization of the act completed in 2020.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

To date, the Standing Committee on Official Languages hasn't been asked to make an official decision or, at the very least, to consider the renewal of the act. Do you think our committee should be a stakeholder in this review?

[Raymond Théberge]

The committee has an extremely important role to play in the modernization process. You are the ones who are able to communicate with your colleagues on this. You have a crucial role to play in the process of the modernization of the act.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Beyond communicating with our colleagues about the modernization of the act, shouldn't we be a stakeholder in the analysis process?

[Raymond Théberge]

Absolutely.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

At the beginning of your opening remarks, you talked about new technologies. It can be seen that the modernization of the act takes time, and its implementation will also take time. Meanwhile, however, technologies are evolving.

I would like to draw your attention to a very important element of technologies and their application: artificial intelligence. I would like you to consider the potential impact of artificial intelligence when making your recommendations on the modernization of the act, whether they relate to the regulations of the act or something else. Two years ago, we talked about translation problems, translators, interpreters and all that. Some MPs were using Google Translate, and it wasn't working well. Ms. Saikaley will remember that.

I think artificial intelligence will go much further. We must therefore ensure that the technologies will make it possible to maintain the current quality of both English and French in Canada.

[Raymond Théberge]

I had a few meetings with people from the Translation Bureau to discuss translation using artificial intelligence.

A certain level of quality has been achieved, but in my opinion, this level is not sufficient to ensure that the French and English versions are of equal quality.

Technology offers opportunities, for example, for service delivery. Websites in both official languages work very well, whether it is for online forms or something else. On the other hand, translations made using Google Translate lead to confusion. Moreover, it is clear that the French and English versions are not of equivalent quality.

There are possibilities. The act must be dynamic and evolve with the technologies, but unfortunately I have the impression that it will always be a little behind the technological developments.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much, Mr. Généreux.

Mr. Choquette, you have three minutes. This will be the last intervention.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have talked a lot about Netflix today, but now I'd like to talk about minority media, which is in a very serious crisis right now.

The announced plan has been the subject of some criticism. For example, an editorial by Sophie Gaulin, editor of La Liberté, entitled “Who does Mélanie Joly think we are?”, stated:

The bad news came through the Minister of Tourism, Official Languages and La Francophonie, Mélanie Joly. National Newspaper Week (October 1-7) [so, very recently] was well under way when on October 4, the minister decided to bring her good news to journalists. Her attempt to try to make Canadians believe that Justin Trudeau's government was intended to help the local and regional press.

Ms. Gaulin explained that the situation is getting out of hand, that there aren't many new measures and that, in western Canada, the $4.5 million over five years for internships has its limits.

I'll return to what Mr. Généreux said about technological developments, which create new challenges in terms of compliance with the Official Languages Act. Of course, we are talking about modernizing the act, but what challenges do we need to overcome in areas such as Netflix, newspapers and minority media?

These media face great challenges and advertisements slip through their fingers. The government used to advertise in these media, but now there are almost none. I would like to hear from you about this case, which follows the Netflix case.

[Raymond Théberge]

The issue of minority media is related to the technology issue we discussed earlier.

Let's be honest, the printed version of the newspaper La Presse was unable to survive due to significant changes in its advertising revenues. The publisher of La Presse said that Google was going to look for $1.3 billion in advertising revenue, an amount that used to go to traditional media.

I followed the evolution of the newspaper La Liberté, which was previously La Liberté et le Patriote. Do such minority media, which are very small, have what they need to survive the technological shift?

The action plan has two components. On the one hand, it provides $4.5 million for internships, but I think the main need for the media is operating funds. There are not many trainees trained in the West. On the other hand, there is $10 million, and I have no clear idea what it will be used for.

French and English-language media in minority communities are currently experiencing a crisis. Their model is very difficult to maintain under current conditions, especially with respect to advertising revenues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mr. Choquette.

Mr. Commissioner, I would like to thank you and the members of your team very much for that splendid presentation and your frank and direct answers to the questions of committee members. Your first appearance is a great success. Thank you very much for enlightening us.

We are going to suspend the meeting for a few minutes to go in camera to discuss committee business. I would ask those who are not attending the in camera part of the meeting to leave the room.

[Raymond Théberge]

Thank you very much.